T Up a Fan?!?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I must ask if you going to insist upon remaining by your child's side in the operating room too, and during the transport? If not, are you being consistent in your stance? I guess that I don't see why do you believe that you must stand right there and hover over the medical personnel on the basketball court, but not in the trauma ward at the local hospital?
Would you tell the doctors at the hospital that they cannot treat your child without you physically present in the room? I think that you are failing to see the big picture. For some reason you, like many others, are fixated on the emergency situation happening on a basketball court and somehow feel compelled to be right next to the scene. Got news for you, if your kid is injured in a car wreck and taken to the hospital via ambulance from the scene, you may not see your child until after the surgeon is finished. The most that you might get is a doctor/hospital administrator coming out into the hallway to fill you in on the situation and ask you to sign a treatment permission form. You actually getting to go back and see your kid is unlikely, if the situation is unstable.

And you think all this is related to whether or not you called a T?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

And you think all this is related to whether or not you called a T?

Of course it is. The T is for someone going where they are not permitted or authorized to be. Plain and simple.

What would happen if a parent burst into the OR to be with his/her child during surgery at a hospital? The police/security would likely be called and the person would be removed, and depending upon the conduct and resistance it's possible that criminal charges could be filed. There are rules and regulations which are in place and need to be followed even in the face of injury to loved ones.

People here seem to be saying, "My kid is hurt," equates to "throw all the rules out the window." That's not how our society works in daily life, and it shouldn't be any different on the basketball court.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Of course it is. The T is for someone going where they are not permitted or authorized to be. Plain and simple.

What would happen if a parent burst into the OR to be with his/her child during surgery at a hospital?

You would issue another T for that?

People here seem to be saying, "My kid is hurt," equates to throw all the rules out the window. That's not how our society works in daily life, and it should be any different on the basketball court.

All the rules? No The rule you are trying to apply to the situation? Yes

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Of course it is. The T is for someone going where they are not permitted or authorized to be. Plain and simple.

Rules reference?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Is what I have in bold sound about right for the rule in question?

If I remember right, under rule 2-8-1, there's a note that states:
"The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in calling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner. In the absence of
a designated school representative, the home coach shall serve as the host management."

Originally Posted by sseltser

Rules reference?

The T or not to T reference is Rule 2-8-1. As the parent coming onto the floor without being summoned is considered unporting behavior by a spectator, altugh extuating circumstances are the cause.

Basically kind of a cause & effect, with the cause being a child getting injured & the effect being the parental instinct to check on their child by going out onto the court.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by chseagle

The T or not to T reference is Rule 2-8-1. As the parent coming onto the floor without being summoned is considered unporting behavior by a spectator, altugh extuating circumstances are the cause.

Basically kind of a cause & effect, with the cause being a child getting injured & the effect being the parental instinct to check on their child by going out onto the court.

That is absolute BS. Seriously - stick to running the clock. You have no concept of the intent or understanding of the rules from an official's perspective. In many ways, you are more wrong than 'representing' to be giving any advice here in this forum.

Discretion must be used in calling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner.

In the case of an injured player, the game is already stopped. There is no orderly progress of the game at that point. Penalizing the team with a T is the absolute wrong thing to do if the parent is only attending to their injured child. What problem does this solve? How does this, in any possible way, make the game better?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Smitty

That is absolute BS. Seriously - stick to running the clock. You have no concept of the intent or understanding of the rules from an official's perspective. In many ways, you are more wrong than 'representing' to be giving any advice here in this forum.

Smitty, I've been told on more than 1 occasion from the floor officials that the table can intervene if they feel a rule is not being followed to the extent that the rule is something that the table has knowledge of.

Generally the rules in question are dealing with uniform presentation or the management of the books.

In the case of an injured player, the game is already stopped. There is no orderly progress of the game at that point. Penalizing the team with a T is the absolute wrong thing to do if the parent is only attending to their injured child. What problem does this solve? How does this, in any possible way, make the game better?

As I stated beforehand, the parent going out onto the floor is a cause & effect.

True, the game has been stopped, but how often in situations of a student-athlete being injured, is a parent actually summoned to come down for assistance?

How wluld the NCAA or NBA/WNBA handle the situation if a player was injured & the player's parent(s) came rushing to their side in the middle of the court?

Same thing can be asked of NFL, MLB, NASCAR, MLS, NHL, IFL, AF1, WWE, TNA, & other sports officials, no matter what the sport is.

For example: what would happen if David Stockton (son of John Stockton) got injured when Gonzaga was playing against the University of Portland, & John (his father) came rushing down onto the court to be by his son's side although he wasn't summoned/given permission?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by chseagle

As I stated beforehand, the parent going out onto the floor is a cause & effect.

True, the game has been stopped, but how often in situations of a student-athlete being injured, is a parent actually summoned to come down for assistance?

How wluld the NCAA or NBA/WNBA handle the situation if a player was injured & the player's parent(s) came rushing to their side in the middle of the court?

Same thing can be asked of NFL, MLB, NASCAR, MLS, NHL, IFL, AF1, WWE, TNA, & other sports officials, no matter what the sport is.

For example: what would happen if David Stockton (son of John Stockton) got injured when Gonzaga was playing against the University of Portland, & John (his father) came rushing down onto the court to be by his son's side although he wasn't summoned/given permission?

You are a control freak. I have no doubt. Your argument is baseless. The difference between any of the leagues you mentioned and high school sports is that THESE ARE CHILDREN!!! As I said there is no way to have a rational argument with the irrational.

There are exactly two people arguing for the case of calling a T because a parent comes onto the court unbeckoned to attend to their injured child. You are both power mongers. A solution looking for a problem. Hammers looking for a nail....

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Smitty, I've been told on more than 1 occasion from the floor officials that the table can intervene if they feel a rule is not being followed to the extent that the rule is something that the table has knowledge of.

Oh and in any situation where I didn't ask you for your help and you pulled this one out of your a$$, especially this situation, my response would be a firm "Shut up or I will have you replaced".

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

As I stated beforehand, the parent going out onto the floor is a cause & effect.

True, the game has been stopped, but how often in situations of a student-athlete being injured, is a parent actually summoned to come down for assistance?

How wluld the NCAA or NBA/WNBA handle the situation if a player was injured & the player's parent(s) came rushing to their side in the middle of the court?

Same thing can be asked of NFL, MLB, NASCAR, MLS, NHL, IFL, AF1, WWE, TNA, & other sports officials, no matter what the sport is.

For example: what would happen if David Stockton (son of John Stockton) got injured when Gonzaga was playing against the University of Portland, & John (his father) came rushing down onto the court to be by his son's side although he wasn't summoned/given permission?

It depends. If it was a Jay Burson type injury, I doubt anyone would say anything. If it was an ankle roll, John isn't coming down.
Mainly, though, it's not the same thing. You're talking about adults verses 14-18 year old kids.

And Smitty's right, if a scorer so much as mentioned calling a T to me in this situation, I'd firmly remind him to mind his own duties and stay out of mine. Frankly, that goes for a lot of the things you think the scorer can jump in on.

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by chseagle

How wluld the NCAA or NBA/WNBA handle the situation if a player was injured & the player's parent(s) came rushing to their side in the middle of the court?

Same thing can be asked of NFL, MLB, NASCAR, MLS, NHL, IFL, AF1, WWE, TNA, & other sports officials, no matter what the sport is.

For example: what would happen if David Stockton (son of John Stockton) got injured when Gonzaga was playing against the University of Portland, & John (his father) came rushing down onto the court to be by his son's side although he wasn't summoned/given permission?

Once again, in your case, less is more. Stop trying to make your point. The more you say, the worse it gets. You are only burying yourself deeper and deeper under the debris of your past comments.

All of those people you mention, "NFL, MLB, NASCAR, MLS, NHL, IFL, AF1, WWE, TNA, & other sports officials, no matter what the sport is," are OVER 18 YEARS OF AGE!!! THEY ARE NOT LEGAL MINORS!!!

Your post is completely irrelevant.... AGAIN!!!

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by chseagle

The parent coming onto the floor without being summoned is considered unporting behavior by a spectator

This is not punishable by a technical foul under 2-8-1. Read (actually read) 2-8-1 and tell me what these spectators have done that interfere with the proper conduct of the game. In addition to that, the 2-8-1 also states to use discretion, so even if you find something that interferes with the proper conduct of the game, it has to be so painfully obvious that it definitely deserves to be penalized and the penalty is "just" to the offending team*. (*Even though the action isn't by a team member.)