T Up a Fan?!?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You don't see entering the court without permission as improper?

So, is it a technical foul every single time bench personnel/spectors rush onto the court following a last-second shot?

[jdw3018]

This entire thread has spun a bit out of control, but it's an excellent read.

I had a recent example of a parent coming onto the court. Girls' V game. Girl goes down awkwardly when attempting to defend a shot (and gets called for a block in doing so) and obviously breaks her wrist/arm. Pretty nasty looking.

Beckon the coach immediately, move away. Mom comes out of the stands without being beckoned/without permission. She holds her daughter's hand while the coach and trainer attend to her and an administrator calls ahead to the hospital. Etc, etc.

Girl and mom leave with the trainer to head to the hospital.

We resume. No technicals.

Would a technical foul have made the game better? Not in a long shot. Was it deserved? In absolutely no way. Mom didn't interfere with the game, in fact, she calmed her daughter which likely helped get the game underway faster and with less emotional distress for others.

I can understand a desire to keep parents off the court in most cases. I can even see if someone wants game management to talk to fans/specific parents after an incident to let them know it would be appropriate to wait to be beckoned.

Asking GM to eject them and then issuing a technical foul is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. And the T is completely without rules support. I'm shocked Nevada has taken a position so unsupported by the rules and in contradiction to the spirit of the rule referenced.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Actors? Say it ain't so!! One finely conditioned athlete and one highly trained professional sports official.

A steroid monkey and the NBA supervisor of officials.

[Jurassic Referee]

I've got an idea......

Crowd and fan control is the responsibility of the home team's management. Why not simply let the home team's management take care of the problem...just like the rulebook tells you to to do?

No muss, no fuss and no stoopid "T"s called on a team for events that they had no control over. All you have to do is point out the offending party to the chseagles of the world and tell them what you want done(if anything). And then just sit back and wait for them to do their job(their job, NOT your job). Doing it that way keeps both Nevada and his pet rat happy, as well as the other 99.999% of officials that disagreed with Nevada. Everybody gets their own way. Nevada can have the grieving parent banished from the kingdom; everybody else can just go with the flow.

Unless you're in a real big hurry to get home and watch Cougar Town on the National Geographic Channel, that kinda sounds like it's not a bad idea to me.

JMHKGO.....

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

One finely conditioned athlete.

But also an actor, maybe not an Academy Award winning actor, but, nevertheless an actor. They certainly put on a good, well received, show, yes, a show, for our brave soldiers in Afghanistan last week.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

A steroid monkey and the NBA supervisor of officials.

Be careful. Their boss may be the next United States senator from the State of Connecticut. Wouldn't it be great to be watching CSPAN and see Linda McMahon throwing a folding chair at Senator Harry Reid?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So, is it a technical foul every single time bench personnel/spectors rush onto the court following a last-second shot?

Phil or Arlen? Arlen is with an e I believe.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

A steroid monkey and the NBA supervisor of officials.

toe may toe toe mah toe

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm putting myself in the place of the parent here rather than the official.

1. You will not stop me, and any attempt will be met with force. It may or may not be right, but that's how it is; so your best bet is to stay out of the way. You will not stop me from being at my child's side. You will not determine whether I'm interfering with medical personnel. Don't even try it.

2. You are not qualified to determine whether I am of sound mind. Any attempts to get between me and my child by you are likely to affect my sound mind, however. I'm normally not a violent person, nor are most people. Try separating a parent from their child, however, and things change drastically and quickly.

3. Perhaps, but you do not get to make that choice. The parent does.

Why do you insist in telling a parent in this situation what's best for them? How old are you again? Do you have children?

Medical first responders are trained to deal with parents here, because they have to get their input and permission to so much as give them pain killers.

And to answer a question Nevada asked before. Would I go in the ambulance? If there was room, you're damned right I would. If not, I'd be there ASAP. Let's just say the odds of me beating the ambulance to the hospital are pretty good.

Concerning riding in the ambulance, here the only people allowed in the ambulance in the ambulance is the driver & ambulance crew along with the patient, no one else is allowed to ride into the hospital, even when there is room, due to new insurance that has been put into effect.

In the cases where people rush out onto the field/court after the final horn sounds, some of the blame is that officials are not fully enforcing the rules, while some of the blame is that the crowd control/security has been told to allow it, even though it is considered unsporting conduct.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

This entire thread has spun a bit out of control, but it's an excellent read.

I had a recent example of a parent coming onto the court. Girls' V game. Girl goes down awkwardly when attempting to defend a shot (and gets called for a block in doing so) and obviously breaks her wrist/arm. Pretty nasty looking.

Beckon the coach immediately, move away. Mom comes out of the stands without being beckoned/without permission. She holds her daughter's hand while the coach and trainer attend to her and an administrator calls ahead to the hospital. Etc, etc.

Girl and mom leave with the trainer to head to the hospital.

We resume. No technicals.

Would a technical foul have made the game better? Not in a long shot. Was it deserved? In absolutely no way. Mom didn't interfere with the game, in fact, she calmed her daughter which likely helped get the game underway faster and with less emotional distress for others.

I can understand a desire to keep parents off the court in most cases. I can even see if someone wants game management to talk to fans/specific parents after an incident to let them know it would be appropriate to wait to be beckoned.

Asking GM to eject them and then issuing a technical foul is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. And the T is completely without rules support. I'm shocked Nevada has taken a position so unsupported by the rules and in contradiction to the spirit of the rule referenced.

A very good reasoning to allow the parent down on the court is that yes they can calm the child & assist the attending medical personnel with the case history, it just depends on the severity of the injury.

In the situation with Derrick Roland, everyone else was on the other end of the court when the coach rushed out to his side. It was after the made attempt on the other side that play was stopped after everyone realized the seriousness of what was happening.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Am I the only one who sees this statement as ironic?

No.

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Concerning riding in the ambulance, here the only people allowed in the ambulance in the ambulance is the driver & ambulance crew along with the patient, no one else is allowed to ride into the hospital, even when there is room, due to new insurance that has been put into effect.

In the cases where people rush out onto the field/court after the final horn sounds, some of the blame is that officials are not fully enforcing the rules, while some of the blame is that the crowd control/security has been told to allow it, even though it is considered unsporting conduct.

Enforce what after the final horn? If an official is doing his job, he's getting the heck out of dodge as soon as the horn is blowing. As soon as were away from the visual confines of the court, our jurisdiction ends. Spectators rushing the court is a game management issue. And in reality, how many times are fans really rushing on the court? Once, maybe twice a season at most?

And the point about the Derrick situation is there was a technical violation of the rules but the officials used common sense. The head coach was on the court during a live ball and was not beckoned.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Concerning riding in the ambulance, here the only people allowed in the ambulance in the ambulance is the driver & ambulance crew along with the patient, no one else is allowed to ride into the hospital, even when there is room, due to new insurance that has been put into effect.

For crying out loud, this is so irrelevant it's not even funny. It's like arguing with my 9 year old. It's partly my fault for answering Nevada's red herring, however....

A quick search on the 'net will show that policies vary all over the place due to insurance and other reasons. Some will only allow it in the case of children, others will allow the parents to ride in the front seat.

Again, not relevant, though.

Originally Posted by chseagle

In the cases where people rush out onto the field/court after the final horn sounds, some of the blame is that officials are not fully enforcing the rules, while some of the blame is that the crowd control/security has been told to allow it, even though it is considered unsporting conduct.

Again, this displays your thorough lack of understanding the rules. Once the game is over, the officials do not hold any responsibility for fans coming onto the court or field. How in the world are you putting that on the officials? I'm seriously curious about that statement.

It's 100% game management/crowd control. And, FWIW, I wouldn't expect a staff of 6 people to prevent a crowd from storming the court after a big win. That's when you just sit back and try to take names for charges later if the school chooses to do so.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by chseagle

For example: what would happen if David Stockton (son of John Stockton) got injured when Gonzaga was playing against the University of Portland, & John (his father) came rushing down onto the court to be by his son's side although he wasn't summoned/given permission?

If they were playing at the Chiles Center in Portland, I don't think the staff there would see this as a big deal. But then, I know plenty of people at UP and they have plenty of common sense.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

If they were playing at the Chiles Center in Portland, I don't think the staff there would see this as a big deal. But then, I know plenty of people at UP and they have plenty of common sense.

I was using the University of Portland as an example, remembering that UP is a WCC rival for Gonzaga.

Concerning the insurance issue with the ambulance, it's recently been changed to where the only people allowed with the patient is the ambulance crew. My family does not like the policy, especially since used to riding in to the hospital via shotgun in the past.

Concerning the situations where I've seen the fans rush the court/field, the officials are still within the visual confines of the playing surface. Also I did not say that the officials bear the full blame, I also said that crowd control is to blame as well. Of course, overall Game Management should announce throughout the game to remain off the court, but how often are announcements like that done? For the games where I've seen this happen in person, the announcements are non-exsistent.

Yes the Texas A&M coach could of/should of been T'd, but due to the seriousness of the injury nothing was done. All the time, it comes to a person's judgement whether or not to assess the penalty or not.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

For crying out loud, this is so irrelevant it's not even funny. It's like arguing with my 9 year old.

It's Christmas. You shouldn't insult your 9-year old.