T Up a Fan?!?

[offici88]

GV last night with a near first...almost had to whack a fan. I look forward to the fodder and clarifications.

Sit: Held ball, partner whistle, white lets go, girl for green hits the deck, starts crying and holding elbow she landed on. I wait a moment to see if she's getting up, then beckon green coach to floor. Before the coach reaches the girl a guy comes from the stands on his way to the girl--must be a parent (Great!).

Parent has a few choice words for me about the physical play and what I should be calling. I give him (parent now on the floor) the "one more word" ultimatum as it was appropriate.

(A)Is the parent a fan since he came from the stands?
(B)Is he bench personnel since he cam to the court?

If I had whacked the parent, what's the proper way to charge the T?

So glad it didn't come to actually having to whack a fan for stupidity.

[chartrusepengui]

I wouldn't T up a fan - even if it was a parent coming to check on kid. I would make sure coach was on the way to aid player and find game management and have them deal with problem. The person (dad) will have to make a decision whether to aid his child or bi!ch at you. In the former - let the coach and parent help injured player, get replacement on court and move on. In the latter, have game management remove them.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by offici88

GV last night with a near first...almost had to whack a fan.

Impossible.

[Smitty]

When a player is injured, it's best to get far away from the player. Hard to stop a concerned parent from coming to the aid of their child. Let the AD and coach deal with it. Get as far away as you can while keeping an eye on the other players. If the parent is making a scene, find the AD and have them deal with the parent. Nothing good can come of this.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by Smitty

When a player is injured, it's best to get far away from the player. Hard to stop a concerned parent from coming to the aid of their child. Let the AD and coach deal with it. Get as far away as you can while keeping an eye on the other players. If the parent is making a scene, find the AD and have them deal with the parent. Nothing good can come of this.

As soon as the parent opens their mouth at me, its bye-bye. They want to come on the floor to assess their child's injury in a CYO/Rec/AAU/summer league game I can understand their concern. As soon as they open their mouth to berate the officials, they are taking advantage of the situation and I will ask GM to remove them. If its an OHSAA sanctioned event, they have no business on the floor until the coach beckons them because its a dire injury. SO its bye-bye automatically. The coach might appreciate it in that situation anyway, as they are probably an intrusive parent.

[Nevadaref]

No one other than bench personnel or the medical trainer is ever allowed to come onto the court during a game. PERIOD.
If random people come out without being granted permission, then they need to be removed from the facility.

Now the part with which many here will disagree. Over the past few years, I have become convinced that if the behavior of a spectator at a HS game is poor enough to warrant an ejection, then a team technical foul should also be assessed, and that can be supported per 2-8-1.

I firmly believe that if the team/coach can't control their fans/followers, then they should be penalized.

[Adam]

I'm with Nevada on this one, and sometimes at lower level rec games with two-bit game management, it's your only real enforcement mechanism. Now, in a HS game, varsity especially, GM had better remove this parent from the facility. As soon as that fan comes to the floor, if his first move isn't back to the stands (after realizing his mistake), I'm heading to the table to inform them I need to speak with GM NOW.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

No one other than bench personnel or the medical trainer is ever allowed to come onto the court during a game. PERIOD.
If random people come out without being granted permission, then they need to be removed from the facility.

Now the part with which many here will disagree. Over the past few years, I have become convinced that if the behavior of a spectator at a HS game is poor enough to warrant an ejection, then a team technical foul should also be assessed, and that can be supported per 2-8-1:Penalize unsporting conduct by any player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.

I firmly believe that if the team/coach can't control their fans/followers, then they should be penalized.

Is what I have in bold sound about right for the rule in question?

If I remember right, under rule 2-8-1, there's a note that states:
"The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in calling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner. In the absence of
a designated school representative, the home coach shall serve as the host management."

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Is what I have in bold sound about right for the rule in question?

If I remember right, under rule 2-8-1, there's a note that states:
"The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in calling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner. In the absence of
a designated school representative, the home coach shall serve as the host management."

You did all of that from memory? WOW!

I believe that Billy Mac would like to speak to you about what supplements you are taking.

(Yes, those are the correct rules citations.)

[just another ref]

When the baby, regardless of age, falls hard and doesn't get up, some parents are not going to ask anybody's permission before checking on him/her.
I, personally, can't see myself taking any action against this parent if that's all he/she was doing.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by just another ref

When the baby, regardless of age, falls hard and doesn't get up, some parents are not going to ask anybody's permission before checking on him/her.
I, personally, can't see myself taking any action against this parent if that's all he/she was doing.

That's any parent's reaction when their child gets hurt, no matter the age.

However, from my understanding, the only ones allowed on the floor during an injury timeout are supposed to be the coach & medical personnel (perhaps the parent coming on the floor was an EMT or nurse).

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

However, from my understanding, the only ones allowed on the floor during an injury timeout are supposed to be the coach & medical personnel (perhaps the parent coming on the floor was an EMT or nurse).

Perhaps, and perhaps he was a street car conductor or a fry cook. (Billy Mac will explain later)

Where does this information come from?

[biggravy]

If he comes on the floor and just checks on his daughter not realizing, he probably gets told the rule. He may not know. As soon as he starts in it's BUH BYE.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by chseagle

That's any parent's reaction when their child gets hurt, no matter the age.

However, from my understanding, the only ones allowed on the floor during an injury timeout are supposed to be the coach & medical personnel (perhaps the parent coming on the floor was an EMT or nurse).

Originally Posted by just another ref

Perhaps, and perhaps he was a street car conductor or a fry cook. (Billy Mac will explain later)

Where does this information come from?

I've seen enough injury timeouts in person, so was just going off of what I have witnessed.

When I was Boys' Basketball Manager, I had 1st hand experience in an injury timeout when one of our star players was pushed into the bleachers & was knocked unconscious for a few minutes. During that injury timeout, there was a bit of a gathering around (especially since he was on the sidelines), however a perimeter around him was kept open where the only ones near him was the coach & medical personnel. The parents were there but were not directly at his side until he got moved into the locker room for further assessment.

[representing]

When my sister played varsity basketball, my mom was the type to run onto the court if she was seriously hurt. Referring back to when I mentioned my sister was knocked out for just a few seconds, that was the only time (that I know of) that my mom actually went down onto the court to check on her. For me, I'm ok with it as long as it is just one person and it has to be a mom, dad or guardian (only because I don't want someone younger claiming to be a brother, sister, etc. and actually just be a fan with no relations). But like some have said, let GM manage with it and get away from the injured player once a coach or trainer comes to the player.

I've learned this from veteran officials... don't get in between an overprotective mother or father and her/his kid. That will cause even more problems or grief.