Questioning my T

[Forksref]

I NEVER use the word "warning" in addressing coaches. I may use the stop sign and say, "That's enough coach." I think saying, "This is your final warning," is baiting the coach.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Forksref

I NEVER use the word "warning" in addressing coaches. I may use the stop sign and say, "That's enough coach." I think saying, "This is your final warning," is baiting the coach.

To me, you're backing yourself into a corner with it; if the coach says something else, you're pretty much obligated to ring him up.

Of course, some would say the same thing about the stop sign.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

To me, you're backing yourself into a corner with it; if the coach says something else, you're pretty much obligated to ring him up.

Of course, some would say the same thing about the stop sign.

Usually, if I give the stop sign, I've already given him/her a reprieve. Anything further after stop sign is a T.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I'm going to go out on a very large limb here and say that, in my opinion, having done both, that officials have a much harder job, within the context of one basketball game, than do coaches.

Your job as a coach is to maximize the play of your team.

My job is to be judge, jury and executioner (in some cases). It is our job, as officials, to be God out on the court. We decide what is a foul and what is not.

Boy, I'm really starting to sound like a hardened cynic, aren't I?

First of all, keep in mind that I officiate tons of Club Soccer games/tournaments, OHSAA high school soccer games, youth basketball games/tournaments and OHSAA high school basketball games each year.

I also happen be the Director of Coaching for a soccer club and help coach a single basketball team. Point is, I am far more of a referee now than I am a coach.

That said, this attitude -- and the limb you are out on -- is part of the problem. This statement implies that you do not respect coaches to the level that you respect referees.

Top college coaches make millions of dollars each year. Top college officials make, well, let's just say somewhat less than that. Apparently, a fair number of people must think that coaching is at least a little challenging.

When I coached, I spent many hours each week watching tape preparing for our next opponent. I prepared a game plan. We developed that game plan during many hours of practice during the week. We would then make final preparations the hour before the game for the execution of that plan. We then attempted to execute that game plan during the game.

As a referee, you show up somewhere between 15 minutes and one hour before the game. You prepare for the game during that period of time. You conduct your pre-game, you stretch, and you get ready to officiate the game. You officiate the game and the game is done. You may discuss the game with your partners for a debrief after a game. It is quite rare that an official would watch a tape following a game (I have done it several times).

As a coach, after the game is over, I would almost always watch the tape at least once before going to bed. I was reviewing our performance against our game plan while beginning to prepare for our next game.

Many coaches follow this same routine all season. If part of their game plan is to attack one of the opponent's guards because they are constantly using their hands/arms to play defense (handchecking/arm barring), the coach EXPECTS the referees to do their part and properly make these calls. If the referees elect to only "call a few of them", they are shortchanging that team. If one team is shorter than the other team, the shorter teams better get good rebounding position and box out consistently. If the officials allow pushing on rebounds, electing only to "call a few of them, but not all of them", they are shortchanging that team.

I do not mean to imply that officiating is easy. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the work that WE as officials do each time we walk out onto the floor. At the same time, please respect the job that coaches do as well.

I just get frustrated when referees act like coaches are the enemy AND when coaches act like referees are the enemy. I have some very good friends who are coaches. Some think that referees are out to get them. This usually becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I have attempted to convince a few of them to get their referee license to gain a better appreciation for how difficult our job as officials really is. At the same time, I have a number of other good friends who are referees as well. Many of them have very good relationships with coaches in general. For the most part, these are the officials who get the high level tournament games each year -- regardless of the sport. There are others who insist that coaches are the enemy. The vast majority of these officials do not last very long. Those that do, end up being very frustrated throughout their careers.

Respect is a two way street between referees and coaches. The first step toward a successful career in EITHER profession is to respect the job that the other does day in and day out. BOTH professions require dedication, hard work and respect to be successful.

Still another $.02.....

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by fiasco

My job is to be judge, jury and executioner (in some cases). It is our job, as officials, to be God out on the court. We decide what is a foul and what is not.

I try to let a higher power perform the role of God. I just try to go out, work hard to create a fair atmosphere for both teams.

I am thinking the view you have just might be one of the reasons why coaches view you the way they do. I don't mean to be harsh, I really don't. But, my goal is to be as transparent as I can during the game -- only getting involved when it is required. If the game ends and no one notices my referee team, it is the ideal game from my perspective. Your appears to transform yourself into the Supreme Being during a game.

[fullor30]

"Top college coaches make millions of dollars each year. Top college officials make, well, let's just say somewhat less than that. Apparently, a fair number of people must think that coaching is at least a little challenging."

Not really. As evidenced by the recent Mack Brown 5,000,000 dollar contract, the mantra is follow the money. Texas football brings in over 80, 000,000 a year to the University. It's about the bucks.

That said, I understand your response to fiasco.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by fullor30

"Top college coaches make millions of dollars each year. Top college officials make, well, let's just say somewhat less than that. Apparently, a fair number of people must think that coaching is at least a little challenging."

Not really. As evidenced by the recent Mack Brown 5,000,000 dollar contract, the mantra is follow the money. Texas football brings in over 80, 000,000 a year to the University. It's about the bucks.

That said, I understand your response to fiasco.

...and if coaching were easy, you would think that Texas could find a coach (or Ohio State could find a coach) for far less than $5M.....If it were easy, I could do it. I would be happy to save my alma mater money by taking the OSU job for no more than $1.0M. I am just guessing that these coaches (football and basketball -- Coach K makes some pretty good money as does Thad Matta) MUST be able to do something pretty special to get the money they are paid.

Otherwise, Texas, Ohio State and Duke would not pay the big salaries.

[BBall_Junkie]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

As a referee, you show up somewhere between 15 minutes and one hour before the game. You prepare for the game during that period of time. You conduct your pre-game, you stretch, and you get ready to officiate the game. You officiate the game and the game is done. You may discuss the game with your partners for a debrief after a game. It is quite rare that an official would watch a tape following a game (I have done it several times).

....

Not necessarily true... We show up any where from 1.5 to 1 hour before the game. Many of us break down every game tape we get and review every call or questionable no-call. Many of the leagues I work put every game on a specific website that we are required by our supervisor to download and review. Many of us work games 3-6 nights per week and we talk about about plays in our pre-games, post games and with our colleagues while we spend countless hours on the road travelling to and from the games. This is all in addition to the thousands of dollars we spend each year and many weekends during the off season away from our families to get better and provide the participants the best product possible. You are severely underestimating the behind the scenes work that we as officials put in....

[JoeT]

Originally Posted by fiasco

This is why I avoid getting in discussions with coaches. Because you don't understand the role of officials.

Oh please, I was an official for almost 10 years - check the "join date" on my post. You didn't describe it as incidental contact; you said it was a handcheck. The rule book (which some people only seem to like when it suits them to mis-quote it) says specifically that handchecks are not incidental contact, and it's been a repeated POE to ask officials to be more diligent about enforcing it.

If you look back at my earlier posts, I agreed that there is incidental contact that should not be called. By YOUR description, these were "handchecks" that were not called "because it was a JV game" and the girl "rides one of this coach's girls from the top of the three point line to the baseline with her forearm in her side."

[Smitty]

This has gotten a little irrelevant. We're not talking about college coaches/referees. We're talking about high school sub-varsity coaches and referees. There's a reason why many coaches and referees are working at the sub-varsity level. Some are "up and comers" and will be at the varsity level very soon. And some are "never gonna get there" and just will never get the nuances of the job. It's the "never gonna get there" folks that generally create the problems night after night with communication techniques, understanding of the rules and how to apply them, and game management. This is a generalization, but at the sub-varsity level, you just never know what you're gonna get till you start the game. And I think it can get ugly fast if you have an imbalance either way with a good coach and a bad official or vice versa. That's just the nature of the beast.

Communication with coaches has always been a difficult thing for me to learn - probably the most difficult thing. I do not have the charisma that many other people have to be able to communicate easily under difficult situations. It is something I still work on, but I have gotten so much better. Like anything else it is just something you have to work on and learn from your failures. And working those sub-varsity games is the very best place to work on those skills.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by JoeT

Oh please, I was an official for almost 10 years - check the "join date" on my post. You didn't describe it as incidental contact; you said it was a handcheck. The rule book (which some people only seem to like when it suits them to mis-quote it) says specifically that handchecks are not incidental contact, and it's been a repeated POE to ask officials to be more diligent about enforcing it.

If you look back at my earlier posts, I agreed that there is incidental contact that should not be called. By YOUR description, these were "handchecks" that were not called "because it was a JV game" and the girl "rides one of this coach's girls from the top of the three point line to the baseline with her forearm in her side."

Ok, Coach. I've heard you.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by BBall_Junkie

Not necessarily true... We show up any where from 1.5 to 1 hour before the game. Many of us break down every game tape we get and review every call or questionable no-call. Many of the leagues I work put every game on a specific website that we are required by our supervisor to download and review. Many of us work games 3-6 nights per week and we talk about about plays in our pre-games, post games and with our colleagues while we spend countless hours on the road travelling to and from the games. This is all in addition to the thousands of dollars we spend each year and many weekends during the off season away from our families to get better and provide the participants the best product possible. You are severely underestimating the behind the scenes work that we as officials put in....

BBall_Junkie,
All true points. I am guessing that you are NOT talking about high school games that are required to be downloaded and reviewed. I think that this would be a good idea for HS referees for at least one or two games every year.

I would tell you that the TYPICAL high school referee does NOT review tapes of every game (many seldom, if ever, do).

The chief point in my post was to indicate that BOTH referees AND coaches have a difficult job that we should ALL respect.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Smitty

This has gotten a little irrelevant. We're not talking about college coaches/referees. We're talking about high school sub-varsity coaches and referees. There's a reason why many coaches and referees are working at the sub-varsity level. Some are "up and comers" and will be at the varsity level very soon. And some are "never gonna get there" and just will never get the nuances of the job. It's the "never gonna get there" folks that generally create the problems night after night with communication techniques, understanding of the rules and how to apply them, and game management. This is a generalization, but at the sub-varsity level, you just never know what you're gonna get till you start the game. And I think it can get ugly fast if you have an imbalance either way with a good coach and a bad official or vice versa. That's just the nature of the beast.

Communication with coaches has always been a difficult thing for me to learn - probably the most difficult thing. I do not have the charisma that many other people have to be able to communicate easily under difficult situations. It is something I still work on, but I have gotten so much better. Like anything else it is just something you have to work on and learn from your failures. And working those sub-varsity games is the very best place to work on those skills.

Smitty,
I agree. I only bring up the college coaches' pay vs. referees' pay to illustrate that some folks recognize that coaching is NOT an easy job.

Your observation concerning sub-varsity games is dead on for both referees and coaches. Some of the worst scenarios are not necessarily with a "good" member of one community and a "bad" one in the other as much as when BOTH fit into the "bad" category. Usually, a good coach can recognize a "bad" referee within the first couple minutes of a game. The difference between the "good" coach and the "bad" coach is that the good coach recognizes what he has and adjusts his game plan accordingly (no handchecks being called tonight, well, let's step up the defensive pressure) while the "bad" coach will continue to yell at the "bad" referee convinced that by pointing out each mistake a referee makes during the game, the referee will somehow become a great referee by game's end. Similarly, the "good" referee recognizes the "bad" coach and ignores the coach to the extent possible trying to avoid giving the coach the chance to do something stupid.

Communications is difficult for everyone when they first start out -- everyone meaning referees AND coaches. Communicating with referees in an appropriate way takes some level of experience -- especially when, as a coach, you are pumped up for the game. Similarly, communicating with coaches -- many of whom don't like you because of your clothing -- takes experience as well.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

The guy was chirping like crazy early in the game. My back was to him as trail and I said loud enough for him to hear "That's enough, coach."

I don't really have a problem with this, but then again I think I'm averaging a little over one T a game in high school games this season. I'm trying to take the nice approach and ask the coach to let the situation go. Of course, I don't mind having the perception of an official who will call a T...

Originally Posted by fiasco

I would just rather handle the situation better next time so the perception of "gunning" for the coach isn't there. Perhaps a quicker T would accomplish that.

I think you are worried about perception too much. What about the perception that a coach can act in an unsporting manner during a scholastic event? The coach does it and then the players start to take adopt the same behavior. If we took care of unsporting behavior more, it would clean up the game. I was in a college conference where Ts flew around all the time and unsporting behavior was decreased. It works.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I don't really have a problem with this, but then again I think I'm averaging a little over one T a game in high school games this season. I'm trying to take the nice approach and ask the coach to let the situation go. Of course, I don't mind having the perception of an official who will call a T...



I think you are worried about perception too much. What about the perception that a coach can act in an unsporting manner during a scholastic event? The coach does it and then the players start to take adopt the same behavior. If we took care of unsporting behavior more, it would clean up the game. I was in a college conference where Ts flew around all the time and unsporting behavior was decreased. It works.

Wow, I really hope that I never have to be calling Ts almost as frequently as timeouts during a game to keep a game under control.