King for a day

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From a thread from two months ago:

I go back to before the alternating possession arrow, when we had jump balls to start each period, for each held ball situation, and even for closely guarded situations, at three different circles on the court, with a lot of different players involved. Back then, because we had so many jump balls, coaches actually had jump ball plays, depending on which circle, and the probability of winning, or losing the tap. These coaches knew the various rules regarding jump balls, and taught these rules to their players. Officials, again, because there were so many jump balls, knew all the jump ball rules like the back of their hand, and good officials actually spent time practicing tosses by tossing the ball up through a basket from below, usually before preseason scrimmages. Now that we have only one jump ball a game, plus overtimes, coaches don't really know the rules, and since they don't know the rules, their players don't know the rules. It’s the same with officials. Now that we have only one jump ball a game, plus overtimes, officials, myself included, don't know the various jump ball rules as well now as we did before the advent of alternating possessions. And these rules aren't easy to understand, especially when you have to apply them in a split second, and only get the opportunity to apply them a few dozen times each season, half the time as the tosser, and the other half of the time as the official observing the jump ball. Jumpers, players on the circle, players off the circle. Official ready to toss, official tosses, ball is tapped. Open spots on the circle, filled spots on the circle. Moving onto the circle, moving off of the circle. Today, it seems like the two tallest kids get to jump, a few shorter kids match up on the circle, and a few more match up off the circle. The official throws up the toss, not with the same skill that I saw many years ago, and the other official stands back and hopes that nothing "odd", or "weird", happens, that is, "odd enough”, or "weird enough”, to be immediately recognized as a violation. Over the past 100 years, we’ve gone from jump balls after every basket; to jump balls to start each period, for each held ball situation, and for closely guarded situations, at three different circles on the court; to a single jump ball at the center circle to start the game, plus overtimes, with alternating possessions after that. I think that the next logical progression is to start the game with a coin toss, like they do in soccer, football, and probably a few other sports. Or let the visitors get to go on offense first, like in baseball, or softball.

Well I disagree with your logic. I don't find the jump ball rules that hard to digest and understand. We typically have a jump ball every game, so these rules should be thought about every game and will be fresh. Now the correctable error rule, which we rarely ever have to actually implement, is infintely more complicated in my opinion. Jump ball rules are simple compared to correctable errors.

[SmokeEater]

It's interesting to read all of the posts and desired changes in this thread. Most I think mirror in concept what FIBA rules enforces.

So if I had to be King for a day I would liek to have all levels of basketball in every part of the world play with the same rules set, (i really don't care which one), just get some uniformity and don't make any modifications to them.

[Mark Padgett]

I think all games should be 8 minute quarters running clock, teams should have no timeouts, games can end in a tie after regulation, possession after a jump ball should be determined by the two players involved arm wrestling, dunking allowed only in girls games and no intentional or flagrant foul calls - let 'em get as violent as they want.

Most important - coaches must remain seated - IN THE PARKING LOT!

[constable]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

It's interesting to read all of the posts and desired changes in this thread. Most I think mirror in concept what FIBA rules enforces.

So if I had to be King for a day I would liek to have all levels of basketball in every part of the world play with the same rules set, (i really don't care which one), just get some uniformity and don't make any modifications to them.

If I could change one FIBA rule it would be getting away from their dumb numbers system. Considering they are much more relaxed on a number of uniform issues, it seems laughable that they only permit 4-15

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

It's interesting to read all of the posts and desired changes in this thread. Most I think mirror in concept what FIBA rules enforces.

So if I had to be King for a day I would liek to have all levels of basketball in every part of the world play with the same rules set, (i really don't care which one), just get some uniformity and don't make any modifications to them.

I've only seen one that mirrored FIBA, Rich's "get rid of live ball timeouts." Nothing else has gone that way.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've only seen one that mirrored FIBA, Rich's "get rid of live ball timeouts." Nothing else has gone that way.

When I posted that reply I saw the posts about correctable errors and also entering the lane on Free throws which are the way FIBA is now. Or at least some resemblence to this.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

When I posted that reply I saw the posts about correctable errors and also entering the lane on Free throws which are the way FIBA is now. Or at least some resemblence to this.

Ah, I'd forgotten about the FT thing, and didn't know FIBA had that rule on CE.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by constable

One jump ball a game shouldn't really be an issue.

Originally Posted by Smitty

I don't find the jump ball rules that hard to digest and understand. We typically have a jump ball every game, so these rules should be thought about every game and will be fresh.

constable and Smitty: You guys are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I respect that, but just for kicks, and please don't cheat by looking it up, give me all the rules about a jump ball, and do it as fast as you can type. Now don't forget to include rules for jumpers, nonjumpers, players on the circle, players off the circle, official ready to toss, official tosses, ball is tapped, open spots on the circle, filled spots on the circle, moving onto the circle, moving off of the circle. I'll even give you a hint, nonjumpers on the circle can move off the circle at any time. Now it's your turn. Ready. Set. Go.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

constable and Smitty: You guys are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I respect that, but just for kicks, and please don't cheat by looking it up, give me all the rules about a jump ball, and do it as fast as you can type. Now don't forget to include rules for jumpers, nonjumpers, players on the circle, players off the circle, official ready to toss, official tosses, ball is tapped, open spots on the circle, filled spots on the circle, moving onto the circle, moving off of the circle. I'll even give you a hint, nonjumpers on the circle can move off the circle at any time. Now it's your turn.

Billy, give me all the rules about technical fouls without looking them up.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Billy, give me all the rules about technical fouls without looking them up.

Many, but certainly not all, technical fouls happen over a period of several seconds, for example the scorer tells you a name is not in the book, or the coach has been distracting you over a period of a few minutes. We often, but not all the time, have time to not only think about what just occurred, but in some cases we can confer with our partner to confirm that a technical foul infraction has occurred.

Jump ball violations happen in the space of a split second, often viewed by only the nontossing official. Do you honestly believe that officials today know the jump ball rules as well as they used to before the advent of the alternating possession arrow? I know that I don't. I would rather spend my study time reviewing the travel rules, or the rules on screening, or rules regarding free throw violations, rules that can be difficult to completely understand, yet we have to know them like we know the back of our hands, because we'll be seeing situations involving these rules many, many, times during the course of a game. I know that I am being lazy admitting this, but since I only observe, as the nontosser, one jump ball, in every other game that I officiate, I'm not wasting my time studying the jump ball rules more than once a season.

Note how may threads, or posts, we get on the Forum about jump ball rules. Do you think it's because all Forum members, except me, know the jump ball rules like they know their own name? Or, rather, is it because they really don't care enough about some rules that they will not need to understand for thirty-one minutes, and fifty-nine seconds, rules that most coaches, players, parents, and maybe, even their partners, don't know very well, and can't criticize their rule knowledge, or lack of, in regard to this set of rules?

[Adam]

Most officials couldn't tell you, without looking, the intricacies of the TF rules either. FCOL, a good chunk of officials would stumble on two or three of the free throw rules.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

A good chunk of officials would stumble on two or three of the free throw rules.

Hey. I work with a few officials that stumble over a boundary line when they don't look where they're going.

[Adam]

That's funny, I don't remember ever being in Connecticut.

[eyezen]

Stop the clock under a minute in the 4th quarter after a made basket
-seems counter intuitive but it would result in better flow of close games
-less TO's called during the end of the game just to stop the clock, take into consideration a TO is going to cost at least a good minute-thirty/minute-fourtyfive from whistle to whistle
-in another wise benign game with no TO's called, it would add maybe 20 secs total if that
-would be ignored completely during mercy clock situations

Coaches can only call a TO while the ball is dead and clock stopped
- obvious

16 minute halves
- better flow, potential for more scoring as two less opt for teams to hold the ball for "last shot"
- not to mention two less chances for us to screw up a horn/shot or shot/horn sequence
- the 8 minute and 24 minute mark now become just like any other

I don't want to push my luck with asking for a shot clock
-but again better flow - less fouling during close games

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

constable and Smitty: You guys are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I respect that, but just for kicks, and please don't cheat by looking it up, give me all the rules about a jump ball, and do it as fast as you can type. Now don't forget to include rules for jumpers, nonjumpers, players on the circle, players off the circle, official ready to toss, official tosses, ball is tapped, open spots on the circle, filled spots on the circle, moving onto the circle, moving off of the circle. I'll even give you a hint, nonjumpers on the circle can move off the circle at any time. Now it's your turn. Ready. Set. Go.

Your point is silly and irrelevant. I simply disagreed with your idea to take away the opening jump ball. Way to go over the top, though.

Not in every game, but certainly in a big game with lots of people in the stands, there is an excitement at the start of the game when the players are lining up for the opening tip. It's a fair and equal beginning to a game. A coin toss would certainly take all of that excitement away.