King for a day

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No jump balls to start the game or the overtime period. Toss a coin, or let the visitors have the ball first.

Why?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Why?

From a thread from two months ago:

I go back to before the alternating possession arrow, when we had jump balls to start each period, for each held ball situation, and even for closely guarded situations, at three different circles on the court, with a lot of different players involved. Back then, because we had so many jump balls, coaches actually had jump ball plays, depending on which circle, and the probability of winning, or losing the tap. These coaches knew the various rules regarding jump balls, and taught these rules to their players. Officials, again, because there were so many jump balls, knew all the jump ball rules like the back of their hand, and good officials actually spent time practicing tosses by tossing the ball up through a basket from below, usually before preseason scrimmages. Now that we have only one jump ball a game, plus overtimes, coaches don't really know the rules, and since they don't know the rules, their players don't know the rules. It’s the same with officials. Now that we have only one jump ball a game, plus overtimes, officials, myself included, don't know the various jump ball rules as well now as we did before the advent of alternating possessions. And these rules aren't easy to understand, especially when you have to apply them in a split second, and only get the opportunity to apply them a few dozen times each season, half the time as the tosser, and the other half of the time as the official observing the jump ball. Jumpers, players on the circle, players off the circle. Official ready to toss, official tosses, ball is tapped. Open spots on the circle, filled spots on the circle. Moving onto the circle, moving off of the circle. Today, it seems like the two tallest kids get to jump, a few shorter kids match up on the circle, and a few more match up off the circle. The official throws up the toss, not with the same skill that I saw many years ago, and the other official stands back and hopes that nothing "odd", or "weird", happens, that is, "odd enough”, or "weird enough”, to be immediately recognized as a violation. Over the past 100 years, we’ve gone from jump balls after every basket; to jump balls to start each period, for each held ball situation, and for closely guarded situations, at three different circles on the court; to a single jump ball at the center circle to start the game, plus overtimes, with alternating possessions after that. I think that the next logical progression is to start the game with a coin toss, like they do in soccer, football, and probably a few other sports. Or let the visitors get to go on offense first, like in baseball, or softball.

[BillyMac]

Coaches should not be allowed to request timeouts during live ball situations. Over the past several years there have been a few points of emphasis regarding coaches calling timeouts during live ball situations, but this hasn’t made the enforcement of this rule any easier. A common situation is where a player is trapped along a boundary, often in a corner, is about to turnover the ball, or is about to be caught in a held ball situation, or is about to commit a five second violation, and the coach requests a timeout to maintain possession of the ball. As officials, we’re watching for fouls, traveling, boundary lines, counting five seconds, etc., a very difficult situation to begin with, and now we hear, usually from behind us, “time out”. We have to make sure that the request came from the head coach, not an assistant coach, or from a parent sitting behind the team bench, and check to make sure that the ball is being held, or dribbled, by a player from that head coach’s team, before we grant the request. Either go back to the old rule only allowing players holding, or dribbling, the ball to request a timeout, or only allow coaches to request timeouts during dead ball situations, including during the dead ball period immediately after a made basket.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Coaches should not be allowed to request timeouts during live ball situations. Over the past several years there have been a few points of emphasis regarding coaches calling timeouts during live ball situations, but this hasn’t made the enforcement of this rule any easier. A common situation is where a player is trapped along a boundary, often in a corner, is about to turnover the ball, or is about to be caught in a held ball situation, or is about to commit a five second violation, and the coach requests a timeout to maintain possession of the ball. As officials, we’re watching for fouls, traveling, boundary lines, counting five seconds, etc., a very difficult situation to begin with, and now we hear, usually from behind us, “time out”. We have to make sure that the request came from the head coach, not an assistant coach, or from a parent sitting behind the team bench, and check to make sure that the ball is being held, or dribbled, by a player from that head coach’s team, before we grant the request. Either go back to the old rule only allowing players holding, or dribbling, the ball to request a timeout, or only allow coaches to request timeouts during dead ball situations, including during the dead ball period immediately after a made basket.

I think a big part of the problem is situational awareness. We had one situation last night where a coach was right in front of the L going down the floor asking for a timeout at a logical time and the L didn't notice it. I caught it first from the C opposite the table -- I was looking for it. You can't always know when someone is going to request a timeout, but you should have an idea. Good official, too, just didn't hear the coach. I was looking across for it.

I'm on the opposite side here. I'd hate to know a coach wanted a timeout and have to wait until he/she got the player's attention in order to grant it. I remember those days. Now is better.

Eliminate all live ball timeouts? I'd go for that.

We have 16-minute halves as an option in non-conference games this season. No incentive for the coaches, really. It costs them 2 free 60-second timeouts. If we'd given them each an extra 30-second timeout or required a "media timeout" in each half at the first dead ball under 8 minutes, we'd see more teams try it out, I think. I'd like this -- 2 less last second shot possibilities and two less AP situations.

[constable]

Getting rid of jump balls period? Not a fan of that idea at all. One jump ball a game ( not counting any overtime or a re-toss) shouldn't really be an issue. There is nothing wrong with a jump ball to start the game and overtimes.

I had my first game that didn't start with a jump ball in a long time yesterday- kid in a JV game dunked ( twice, first one he was spoken too) in the warm up- that's a silly rule. I know others disagree with me.

Another rule I know others disagree with me on is seeing an player disqualified for a flagrant foul have to leave the bench and goto the dressing room.

The ability for teams to mutually agree on the colour of their uniforms ( home in dark, away in white) seems only natural to me.

I prefer people being able to enter the lane on release of the ball, but I believe NHFS changed that about 10 years ago or so to clean up rough play.

OH YA- shot clocks. Shot clocks make for such a better game. In going from FIBA with a 24 second shot clock to Fed with an 4 8 minute shot clocks, it is such a better game.

So if I could change only one rule, it would be the implementation of shot clocks for all high school and up games.

[j51969]

I remember quite some time ago I did a pre-season G tournament in Iowa where they experimented with the shot clock. It worked well, but we did have some issues with the personnel running the clock at times. There would be a rather big learning curve for officials and the table getting started. Can't say I remember what ever came of it. Anyone from Iowa have anything?

[jalons]

Originally Posted by j51969

I remember quite some time ago I did a pre-season G tournament in Iowa where they experimented with the shot clock. It worked well, but we did have some issues with the personnel running the clock at times. There would be a rather big learning curve for officials and the table getting started. Can't say I remember what ever came of it. Anyone from Iowa have anything?

I do not remember the Girls' Union ever attempting to implement the shot clock. I can only imagine the melees this would cause with the table crews and officials in the state. The schools would also hide behind the initial cost of the setup if this was ever brought up for discussion.

The Girls' Union is allowing the teams to play two sixteen minute halves in non-conference games in both coaches agree. Each conference can adopt this change, if every school agrees. I have heard of a few schools experimenting with this change but I have not been involved in any high school game playing two halves. I would vote for the change to eliminate the quarter break during each half.

The Girls' Union did require a coin toss during my short officiating career. I worked a junior high travel-ball tournament during that time with a team from Minneapolis playing a team from Kansas City. We were using NFHS rules with the Iowa adaptations. At the captain's meeting I asked the visiting team (on the scoreboard) to call the coin toss. She looked at me and asked "are you f@cking kidding me?" My first response was, "I wish I was."

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by constable

OH YA- shot clocks. Shot clocks make for such a better game. In going from FIBA with a 24 second shot clock to Fed with an 4 8 minute shot clocks, it is such a better game.

So if I could change only one rule, it would be the implementation of shot clocks for all high school and up games.

• I agree, a 48 minute shot clock would be ideal. (I know, I know, he was being sarcastic about 4 x 8 minute quarters.) But schools are in $$ trouble already. Install shot clocks AND find decent operators? Hold on that please....
  
  
• FT lane restrictions end on release.
  
  
• If the opposing coach yells "I want a time out next time we have the ball" to the official while he runs past the coach, while my player is on a fast break, that causes an inadvertant whistle stopping my break, he gets a T for unsporting.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by CoachP

If the opposing coach yells "I want a time out next time we have the ball" to the official while he runs past the coach, while my player is on a fast break, that causes an inadvertant whistle stopping my break, he gets a T for unsporting.

How often does this ever happen in a Varsity game? This is silly.

[JRutledge]

Get rid of the current coaches box and let coaches use a college style box. Then when they get T'd, they can sit down like the current rule. Then they have no excuse for getting stuck.

Peace

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by constable

Getting rid of jump balls period? Not a fan of that idea at all. One jump ball a game ( not counting any overtime or a re-toss) shouldn't really be an issue. There is nothing wrong with a jump ball to start the game and overtimes.

I had my first game that didn't start with a jump ball in a long time yesterday- kid in a JV game dunked ( twice, first one he was spoken too) in the warm up- that's a silly rule. I know others disagree with me.

Another rule I know others disagree with me on is seeing an player disqualified for a flagrant foul have to leave the bench and goto the dressing room.

The ability for teams to mutually agree on the colour of their uniforms ( home in dark, away in white) seems only natural to me.

I prefer people being able to enter the lane on release of the ball, but I believe NHFS changed that about 10 years ago or so to clean up rough play.

OH YA- shot clocks. Shot clocks make for such a better game. In going from FIBA with a 24 second shot clock to Fed with an 4 8 minute shot clocks, it is such a better game.

So if I could change only one rule, it would be the implementation of shot clocks for all high school and up games.

Constable,

You should move down here to Washington State then. We have a 30-second shot clock for girls, & a 35-second shot clock for boys. The WIAA amended the Boys' shot clock regulation just over the summer. It's been interesting to see the coaches getting used to the shot clock & the style of play has evolved from it.

[chseagle]

How about just play "street rules", no blood, no foul??

[26 Year Gap]

"What time is tipoff?" Keep the jump ball start for tradition's sake.

I am a big fan of only dead ball TO requests by the coach. The kids know the coach's voice from practice. They show be able to signal the request to the officials. But no live ball TO requests? No. The ball is live at the disposal of the thrower-in and often requests will come late in the count. Same thing with pressure in the backcourt.

Make delay entering the court after a throw-in a violation instead of a technical foul.

[Nevadaref]

Go to 3-2-1 scoring on field goals.

Change the FT lane to the FIFA trapezoid or a small semi-circle and treat it just like the current two point area of the court, only make shots taken from there worth only a single point. The court would now have three areas with point values of 1, 2, and 3 for goal made from therein.

This would return the value of the mid-range jumpshot to the game and the overemphasis on dunks and big guys would be greatly reduced. The game of basketball should be about skill, not just sheer size. It sickens me to see people being handed so much money in our society simply because they are tall or large, yet don't have any real talent or skills.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From a thread from two months ago:

I go back to before the alternating possession arrow, when we had jump balls to start each period, for each held ball situation, and even for closely guarded situations, at three different circles on the court, with a lot of different players involved. Back then, because we had so many jump balls, coaches actually had jump ball plays, depending on which circle, and the probability of winning, or losing the tap. These coaches knew the various rules regarding jump balls, and taught these rules to their players. Officials, again, because there were so many jump balls, knew all the jump ball rules like the back of their hand, and good officials actually spent time practicing tosses by tossing the ball up through a basket from below, usually before preseason scrimmages. Now that we have only one jump ball a game, plus overtimes, coaches don't really know the rules, and since they don't know the rules, their players don't know the rules. It’s the same with officials. Now that we have only one jump ball a game, plus overtimes, officials, myself included, don't know the various jump ball rules as well now as we did before the advent of alternating possessions. And these rules aren't easy to understand, especially when you have to apply them in a split second, and only get the opportunity to apply them a few dozen times each season, half the time as the tosser, and the other half of the time as the official observing the jump ball. Jumpers, players on the circle, players off the circle. Official ready to toss, official tosses, ball is tapped. Open spots on the circle, filled spots on the circle. Moving onto the circle, moving off of the circle. Today, it seems like the two tallest kids get to jump, a few shorter kids match up on the circle, and a few more match up off the circle. The official throws up the toss, not with the same skill that I saw many years ago, and the other official stands back and hopes that nothing "odd", or "weird", happens, that is, "odd enough”, or "weird enough”, to be immediately recognized as a violation. Over the past 100 years, we’ve gone from jump balls after every basket; to jump balls to start each period, for each held ball situation, and for closely guarded situations, at three different circles on the court; to a single jump ball at the center circle to start the game, plus overtimes, with alternating possessions after that. I think that the next logical progression is to start the game with a coin toss, like they do in soccer, football, and probably a few other sports. Or let the visitors get to go on offense first, like in baseball, or softball.

Well I disagree with your logic. I don't find the jump ball rules that hard to digest and understand. We typically have a jump ball every game, so these rules should be thought about every game and will be fresh. Now the correctable error rule, which we rarely ever have to actually implement, is infintely more complicated in my opinion. Jump ball rules are simple compared to correctable errors.