Looking for consistency

[grunewar]

Coach, I believe you are correct to rant here. We, as officials, are inconsistent enforcing this depending on your area and what you have been instructed to enforce – as you see by the replies to date. I have been in the situation, “But the last refs said it was ok,” which makes my job even more difficult. My situation is a hybrid of what you have already read:

1) We enforce the undergarment rule only at HS level (to include F and JV, not below) but also during the spring league to ensure “consistency” and to ensure the players know it is not ok at any time.

2) A differing color (white with gold for example) would be unacceptable. As Nevada points out, our Annual State Briefings have included slides with what is acceptable and what is not. Off shades of the same color that come close are usually ok. As Brad points out, I understand the intent of the rule – but, my Association doesn’t see it that way and wants it enforced – period.

3) The uniform “tuck-in rule” is a pet-peeve of ours and we have been instructed to enforce it at all times on the court and not allow players to enter the court if they are not ready.

4) I also agree with Brad that you have to be able to enforce the rules (“these same officials, having expertly enforced the undershirt (or jersey tuck, or coaches box, or some other administrative anomaly) then come out on the court during live play and kick block/charges, call fouls on blocked shots, and in general screw up the part of the game that matters!”). Credibility is important.

It certainly is problematic and apparently, "no one size fits all" is applied.
My $.02

[JRutledge]

I have a question for coaches. Why not have your kids wear the right colors or no undershirt at all and you will not have to worry about what an official says or does not say? As a coach don't you control what your kids wear?

This is about thing 100 on my list of important things. If I see an undershirt that is illegal I will enforce the rule, but there are so many other things that are more important. I have never seen SportsCenter make an issue over the misapplication of a uniform rule.

Peace

[Adam]

I've never seen SportsCenter make an issue of anything in high school games. If that was my criterion....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've never seen SportsCenter make an issue of anything in high school games. If that was my criterion....

You know ESPN runs high school basketball games?

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You know ESPN runs high school basketball games?

Peace

True, but I've never seen them make an issue out of the officiating in HS games.

Other than last second shots in state tournament games.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

True, but I've never seen them make an issue out of the officiating in HS games.

Other than last second shots in state tournament games.

I guess it is all relative. I have seen them dissect a play in high school not much different than they have in other games. Or comment on if the officials got a foul right or a rule right during the highlight.

And the point was not really about SportsCenter (I could have used High School Lites, but you would not have likely known what that was), it is the fact that no one comments about uniform issues in the media.

Peace

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have a question for coaches. Why not have your kids wear the right colors or no undershirt at all and you will not have to worry about what an official says or does not say? As a coach don't you control what your kids wear?

JRut - this would be great! Unfortunately, I personally haven't seen it applied yet.

It is my understanding that it is a requirement that a member of each school have a representative at our State's Mandatory Meeting annually - so they hear it each yr and it shouldn't be a surprise......

[Brad]

Originally Posted by grunewar

3) The uniform “tuck-in rule” is a pet-peeve of ours and we have been instructed to enforce it at all times on the court and not allow players to enter the court if they are not ready.

My pet peeve is guys that don't know how to administer this rule well. It is easy to get kids to tuck in their shirts and you don't have to embarrass them or make a spectacle about it.

I was working with a co-official a few years ago who had just called a very weak foul on a player, giving him his 4th foul. The coach tried to sub in for his player and my co-official didn't want to let the sub in because his jersey wasn't tucked in!

This is a complete lack of game awareness -- he had no idea it was the kid's 4th foul, it was a terrible call to begin with (foul on a blocked shot), and then wants to compound problems by not allowing the sub in! (I told the kid to tuck his shirt in and come in the game)

It's just been my experience that the guys that are hung up on shirttails, undershirt colors, and other minute details of the rules, generally can't referee.

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Brad

The coach tried to sub in for his player and my co-official didn't want to let the sub in because his jersey wasn't tucked in!

If it's not going to slow or halt the game, just have the kid tuck in his shirt (as you did -- good job) and get him on the floor.

Obviously, removing an undershirt or switching to a different color can't be done without leaving the game area, so that's a different scenario.

Sounds like your partner that game must have been the guy who spends a buck to save 25 cents. Or is so proud of his gold medal, he bronzes it.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Brad

My pet peeve is guys that don't know how to administer this rule well. It is easy to get kids to tuck in their shirts and you don't have to embarrass them or make a spectacle about it.

Not going to disagree on principle here and as the player comes on to the court, I have no problem having them "tuck it in."

I'm just saying what we've been instructed to do - it does slow the game down, "i.e. - "Coach, I need another player as this ones not ready to go." By the time the new player comes off the bench the original player has his shirt in and is ready to go. Guess their "point" is to teach the player a lesson......I'm not a big fan.

[just another ref]

If a kid is at least in the process of tucking the shirt as he enters, I say he's okay. But if this kid has his shirt totally out, and wants to enter, he's out of luck. Why is the shirttail out in the first place? If I'm the coach, I tell my entire team that if they want to play in the game, they need to be entirely ready to go in at a moments notice. This would include the shirttail.

[walter]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Not going to disagree on principle here and as the player comes on to the court, I have no problem having them "tuck it in."

I'm just saying what we've been instructed to do - it does slow the game down, "i.e. - "Coach, I need another player as this ones not ready to go." By the time the new player comes off the bench the original player has his shirt in and is ready to go. Guess their "point" is to teach the player a lesson......I'm not a big fan.

I'm not a big fan either BUT, our association and state association takes the position that the head coach is responsible for the bench personnel and subs and, if a sub comes to the table and attempts to enter with his/her shirt tail out, they don't come in. The rationale is that it is the coach's responsibility to make sure subs are ready and we are justified in not allowing the sub in the game. We are instructed to address this position with the coach's at the pre-game conference and enforce it. We had an official lose a state tournament assignment in a later round becuase he allowed subs to "tuck it in" as they were entering the game from the table. The state rep told him after the game that the head coach had plenty of opportunity to have that sub ready and chose not to do it. The punishment to the coach is his/her sub doesn't come in. The state rep called our assignor and told him not to allow the official to work in later rounds based upon his "non-enforcement" of rules. Pretty harsh but when in Rome...

[Brad]

Originally Posted by walter

We had an official lose a state tournament assignment in a later round because he allowed subs to "tuck it in" as they were entering the game from the table.

This is completely and utterly absurd.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Brad

This is completely and utterly absurd.

Brad, holding your emotions in like this is only going to hurt you in the long run. Let it out, man.

[walter]

Originally Posted by Brad

This is completely and utterly absurd.

Agreed but the man from the state association was quite adamant about it! He went on and on about it being a point of emphasis for the state from initial interpretation meeting on. Personally I think the guy is a jerk but...