Importance of games

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We all see things through different eyes. I can have a varsity game go down to the wire and, while it's fun to work a game like that, it doesn't raise my BP or heart rate like it did 15 years ago. It's just another game and I have no vested interest in the outcome, other than I want to make the proper calls and call the game the right way. No different than any other game.

If I am going to spend my spare time working a game I am going to attempt to have fun in that contest. When it stops becoming fun I will stop working those games. That is why I do not work anything below high school anymore, because it started to not be fun anymore with the parents and coaches. This is just a sport, not a life or death activity. Kids will not likely remember what they did 20 years from now at that level. The only time they recognized that activity is when they are in high school because it is such a right of passage time of their life. I could not tell you a single game when I was in middle school or before and I could not tell you who was on the teams without looking at a year book (If I can find one). These kids are usually more concerned with where they are going to get ice cream after the game than how many points and assists they had playing what is only a game.

Peace

[Forksref]

I've done basketball for over 30 years. I consider myself semi-retired from it because I have chosen to do mostly JH games. I am really enjoying this year, helping the young kids and coaches. I get satisfaction from knowing I have done a good job and that I am filling a big need. Sometimes I get frustrated at having to deal with such a low level of ability (turnovers, etc.) but I get through the game and realize why I am out there. At the same time, I am helping some rookie officials and that is satisfying too. It's amazing how much we take for granted that young officials don't know.

Although I try to consider each game a "big" game for the kids, I also know that the number one reason that kids play sports at these levels is to have fun (born out by several studies that I have read). Unfortunately, parents and some coaches see winning as the most important thing. You'd be surprised the number of grandparents that attend these games and they seem to be happy simply by seeing their grandkids play.

I've had to deal with wild coaches and disrespectful players but not very often, especially when they see that I won't put up with it. (3 T's this year) I know that the coach that I T'd learned from it because he came up after the game and apologized. Overall, the players and coaches at this level have been really fun to work with.

Everyone has their niche and it may change with time.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If I am going to spend my spare time working a game I am going to attempt to have fun in that contest. When it stops becoming fun I will stop working those games. That is why I do not work anything below high school anymore, because it started to not be fun anymore with the parents and coaches. This is just a sport, not a life or death activity. Kids will not likely remember what they did 20 years from now at that level. The only time they recognized that activity is when they are in high school because it is such a right of passage time of their life. I could not tell you a single game when I was in middle school or before and I could not tell you who was on the teams without looking at a year book (If I can find one). These kids are usually more concerned with where they are going to get ice cream after the game than how many points and assists they had playing what is only a game.

Peace

I was working a great game last week and a guy working security in the corner came up to me and chatted with me during a timeout. I thought this was kind of odd, but I quickly realized it was the principal. He had a huge smile on his face and said, "Isn't this game fun, just what high school sports should be about. Doesn't matter the outcome, it's a great game!"

His team was losing, BTW. And lost a few minutes later. I'm willing to bet he still saw it as a great game. As did I.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I was working a great game last week and a guy working security in the corner came up to me and chatted with me during a timeout. I thought this was kind of odd, but I quickly realized it was the principal. He had a huge smile on his face and said, "Isn't this game fun, just what high school sports should be about. Doesn't matter the outcome, it's a great game!"

His team was losing, BTW. And lost a few minutes later. I'm willing to bet he still saw it as a great game. As did I.

And that is the attitude that most people should take. But we have sullied the game with how many fouls are called and who is against them, then taking responsibility for learning lessons or being proud of how you perform under adversity of some kind. I do understand that winning is important, but it is not the most important thing. At the end of the year only one team is going to be champion and that means that everyone else has to learn to lose. We have lost site of how to lose with dignity and to take responsibility for your role in that losing. And just because something is important to me, does not mean it is important to you.

I am single and I like a certain kind of woman, does that mean I have to look for attributes that are important to someone else when that is not what I get excited about? The same thing applies to officiating or any sport.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And that is the attitude that most people should take. But we have sullied the game with how many fouls are called and who is against them

The one thing I have a real issue with is this: Do these coaches who yell and scream really think I give a flying crap who wins the game?

If they do, well, they're dumber than they act.

[dave30]

A high school district game would probably be more important than a 5th grade rec league game as far as having to enforce some rules such as illegal numbers, wrong color jerseys (blue vs red) for example, etc.

As for the calls, there shouldn't be that much difference, except that you are more lenient on travel, double-dribble, etc in a 3rd or 4th grade game compared to high school.

But that being said... to the 5th grade players in a championship game of their rec league.....their game is just as important to them as the state championship game for their local high school.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by dave30

A high school district game would probably be more important than a 5th grade rec league game as far as having to enforce some rules such as illegal numbers, wrong color jerseys (blue vs red) for example, etc.

As for the calls, there shouldn't be that much difference, except that you are more lenient on travel, double-dribble, etc in a 3rd or 4th grade game compared to high school.

I don't think anyone would question this part.

But that being said... to the 5th grade players in a championship game of their rec league.....their game is just as important to them as the state championship game for their local high school.

This is the idea I was hoping to promote, and while I would not presume to censor anyone, I thought perhaps some might think twice before giving replies which cast a negative light on any other poster's game/league, no matter what level is being discussed.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This is the idea I was hoping to promote, and while I would not presume to censor anyone, I thought perhaps some might think twice before giving replies which cast a negative light on any other poster's game/league, no matter what level is being discussed.

Sorry, not going to happen. I guess you will continue to be upset. Because if some parent comes here yelling about how the officials screwed their child’s game as if this was the 7th game of the NBA Finals or the Final Four, you will not get a response that will not show some perspective. It might not even come from me; it will come from many that post here.

Nice try, but it will not work.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sorry, not going to happen. I guess you will continue to be upset. Because if some parent comes here yelling about how the officials screwed their child’s game as if this was the 7th game of the NBA Finals or the Final Four, you will not get a response that will not show some perspective. It might not even come from me; it will come from many that post here.

Nice try, but it will not work.

Peace

It is fine to have perspective:

First time poster: Last night in my 10 year old girl's game the other team repeatedly reached in and went over the back and they didn't call any fouls.

Response: You need to understand the rule on what actually is or is not a foul............etc. Also at this level, it is quite possible that the officials have limited experience.......etc. A game involving players of this age is difficult to compare to high school games or things you see on tv.........etc.

But it's not necessary to smack someone in the face with your perspective:

Response #2: Sir/ma'am, it's obvious you know nothing about the game and combined with the fact that it's just a kids game, which means it had clueless officials, there's really no point in any of us trying to explain anything to you. We have important issues to discuss, like what shoes the D1 guys wear.



Each of us must decide who he wants to be.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It is fine to have perspective:

First time poster: Last night in my 10 year old girl's game the other team repeatedly reached in and went over the back and they didn't call any fouls.

Response: You need to understand the rule on what actually is or is not a foul............etc. Also at this level, it is quite possible that the officials have limited experience.......etc. A game involving players of this age is difficult to compare to high school games or things you see on tv.........etc.

But it's not necessary to smack someone in the face with your perspective:

Response #2: Sir/ma'am, it's obvious you know nothing about the game and combined with the fact that it's just a kids game, which means it had clueless officials, there's really no point in any of us trying to explain anything to you. We have important issues to discuss, like what shoes the D1 guys wear.

Each of us must decide who he wants to be.

Either you do not read many posts or you are reading what you want to read.

I do not read on a regular basis people just coming out and saying, "it is just a kid’s game" without some explanation or trying to help the person out. Usually the people that are not officials come here want only to have their positions validated and do not come here for an honest discussion or a real official's point of view. Considering that this is an official's website, things like shoes and pants and other aspects are going to be "important" to someone.

Just like you cannot dictate how people respond to people that come here and talk about what is or is not important, you cannot tell people what they can talk about either. And you are definitely not telling people how to feel about games at any level. Just like there are people here that do not care about the NBA, but there are others that do. If those conversations bother you, do not read them. To expect everyone is going to treat a kids game, men's league or rec. league the same as a college or high school game is rather silly and unrealistic. It is not going to change because it upsets you.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sorry, not going to happen. I guess you will continue to be upset. Because if some parent comes here yelling about how the officials screwed their child’s game as if this was the 7th game of the NBA Finals or the Final Four, you will not get a response that will not show some perspective. It might not even come from me; it will come from many that post here.

Nice try, but it will not work.

Peace

Werd.

At the end of the day, NONE of us are doing brain surgery. A lot of people at all levels can use a little perspective. It *is* just a game.

If those 5th grade championship games were as important *to me*, I'd be seeking to work them, instead of making a conscious decision to *not* work them. When a parent of a 9 year old comes here and rants, I think they typically get exactly what they deserve.

[cardinalfan]

My older son played at junior college, and my younger son now plays at a D3 school.

I think I have a pretty good perspective of when basketball should be taken a little more seriously.
I tried calling college ball, but my work schedule wouldn't allow it. I prefer high school.

Each year I go down to the local school to watch friends' kids play elementary ball. I leave with a smile on my face after watching parents yell like fools, coaches try strategy they've seen on ESPN, and officials who use atrocious mechanics and don't know the rules.
If some of those officials can use this forum to improve, I say more power to you. Who am I to judge what level you want to call? But let's keep it in perspective, guys!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If those 5th grade championship games were as important *to me*, I'd be seeking to work them, instead of making a conscious decision to *not* work them. When a parent of a 9 year old comes here and rants, I think they typically get exactly what they deserve.

Exactly!!!!!!

Peace