Mind your own business?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Therefore coach cannot get a reasonably requested timeout, so you want to whack him?

A request by the coach is no longer reasonable when it comes from the center
of the court.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

You're going to penalize a coach for your inability to hear a request for TO? All he wanted was a TO and his request could not be heard.

No, he is being penalized for leaving the box. Coming out to the middle of the court is not acceptable ever. Coaches need to understand that seeing/hearing a timeout request from the bench is not the officials' top priority. Sure all he wanted was a timeout but that does not mean the other rules of the game do not apply.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A request by the coach is no longer reasonable when it comes from the center
of the court.

just another ref:

Ignats is correct on this. While no wants to see a HC out on the court in this fashion, the officals screwed the pooch, as our umpiring brethern would say, in this situation. If a coach is continually requesting a TO during a ThI and neither officials ignore his legitimate requests for a TO, then they have to suck the TF back into their whistles and man-up to their poor game and court awareness.

MTD, Sr.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

While no wants to see a HC out on the court in this fashion, the officals screwed the pooch, as our umpiring brethern would say, in this situation. If a coach is continually requesting a TO during a ThI and neither officials ignore his legitimate requests for a TO, then they have to suck the TF back into their whistles and man-up to their poor game and court awareness.

First off the officials did not "screw the pooch". Every time there is a thread about rules we would like to see changed multiple people always suggest not allowing coaches to request timeouts. It is hard to do, it is a hassle. Sometimes the officials will miss a timeout request because they are not looking in the direction of the bench.

Neither one of the officials ignored his legitimate request. They were not aware that he was requesting a timeout. It is not the officials fault that the gym was loud and they could not hear the coach calling timeout.

The NCAA rules say "Coaches are expected to remain in the coaching box. To do otherwise results in a distinct advantage that is not within the spirit and intent of the rules." The coach leaving the box created a distinct advantage for his team. Had he not left the box the team would not have been granted a timeout. If I was the opposing coach in this game and you didn't call the T you can be sure that I would find my way to the middle of the court while the ball is live at some point in the game. If you're going to allow the other coach to gain an advantage by walking out to the middle of the court I'm for sure going to try to help my team out by doing the same thing.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The point is that one of them should have heard it. The L really doesn't have anything going on yet, so could easily have helped this situation by having some awareness of what's going on and getting the TO for the coach.

Regarding awareness, my thought also. Be prepared after a mini run or defensive miscue etc. that someone will be calling time out. After a made basket in above situations I always glance over to coach that is most likely to call one. Typically it will be called after a made basket, free throw or in transition.

That said, two man can be tough. I'd hate to call a T for the crew's 'failin' to communicate' .

[mj]

So if the T is opposite the benches near the division line, how can he not have a clear view of both benches?

You have to be aware of things...I say no T. Keep the game moving and grant the timeout.

[Ignats75]

^^^^What MJ said but even more....Even if the T is Tableside, if the L is doing his job, he is looking at the Table (and therefore the HC should be in his Line of Sight) and should be looking for a last second sub and making sure they are ready to go (as a crew). In pregame, one of the standard points is to make eye contact before inbounding the ball. This isn't done so I can wink at my partner. This is done to make sure we are both ready and everything is under control. Apparently, the crew in the OP didn't address this in the pregame, or someone was asleep at the switch.

[Ignats75]

Trail tossed the ball to the lead, then proceeded to step into the huddle and engage in a spirited discussion with the coach, gesturing emphatically to the coaches box.

I just re-read the OP and this time this line jumped out at me. I believe it is highly unprofessional to step into the huddle, and pick a fight with a coach. We've talked alot about baiting coaches over the years. If this description doesn't fit that to a t (no pun intend....wait yes it was) I don't know what does. You want to say something to a coach, stand near the huddle (but outside it) and have a quick word after they break. In this description the some people want to:

1. Miss the reasonably requested timeout in a close game
2. Whack the coach because the referees had poor game awareness and management skills
3. Not whacking him, but being visibly annoyed and then eating up his time out by picking a fight.

You know, one of my pet peeves about civilians is when they say referees want the game to be about them and not the game. I could understand why a fan would feel that way about the Trail

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Did I do that poor a job of describing things? The point of this thread was not even about the failure to grant the time out. I was asking if anyone would call the T from the lead after the trail had granted the time out and was obviously not going to call one.

No, I would not call the T frlm L if T granted the TO.

And, I wouldn't go into the huddle.

Whether to give the T depends on the coaches actions prior to this, and his actions in requesting a TO. I might (probably would) try to have a word with him after the TO asking (warning?) him to stay in the box.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Every time there is a thread about rules we would like to see changed multiple people always suggest not allowing coaches to request timeouts. It is hard to do, it is a hassle. Sometimes the officials will miss a timeout request because they are not looking in the direction of the bench.

I'm one of those multiple people. Game awareness will certainly help, a lot, but there are situations where it is unbelievably difficult to grant a request for a timeout. One situation in in the first half, where an offensive player gets trapped in the corner, against the division line, and the sideline. The official is looking for out of bounds, backcourt, illegal "reaching in" contact, illegal movement of the pivot foot, etc., when from the bench on the other side of the table comes a request for a time out. If you think this is an easy situation to grant a timeout, then you haven't been officiating very long. The other situation involves players on the floor trying to get control of a loose ball. The official is looking for any one of a variety of violations, any one of a variety of fouls, or a held ball, when a voice from the bench requests a timeout. Again, if you think this is an easy situation to grant a timeout, then you haven't been officiating very long.

Game awareness helps. A good partner helps. But let's go back to the old rule where only players on the court could request a timeout.

Happy New Year.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

just another ref:

Ignats is correct on this. While no wants to see a HC out on the court in this fashion, the officals screwed the pooch, as our umpiring brethern would say, in this situation. If a coach is continually requesting a TO during a ThI and neither officials ignore his legitimate requests for a TO, then they have to suck the TF back into their whistles and man-up to their poor game and court awareness.

MTD, Sr.

I guess, to me, if the coach had been doing everything within the rules before he walked out onto the court, I'd have more compassion. Frankly, from the L's perspective, he's just walking and talking in a loud gym. He might very well be offering instructions to his players.

In the OP (as specified later), he was not using the widely accepted hand signal. Not only could the officials not hear him due to the gym, they couldn't see him due to the fact he wasn't giving a signal. I'm sorry, but this is a very key point.

Coaches aren't idiots, and a varsity coach should know that in a loud gym he's going to have to aid his timeout request with the signal.

[muxbule]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

But let's go back to the old rule where only players on the court could request a timeout.

Don't know that I agree with this and I know you profess this often but I don't have a frame of reference since I did not officiate with that rule. That said, if the coach is screaming timeout does it not stand to reason that if his players heard it they would signal and request it also. My point is, his own players did not hear it neither did the crew. Once recognized grant the timeout and I agree this all depends on what the rest of the game has been like with this coach.
Happy New Year

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

But let's go back to the old rule where only players on the court could request a timeout.

Happy New Year.

And lets go back to where the ball is put back into play with an actual jump ball everytime we have a jump ball situation (get rid of Alternating Possession). Ain't I a stinker, .

Happy New Year!

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by muxbule

If the coach is screaming timeout does it not stand to reason that if his players heard it they would signal and request it also.

Simple answer, at least for games here in my little corner of the Constitution State, no.

And don't forget, after an official hears the timeout request, he, or she, has to make sure that it's made by the head coach of the team that has player control, which, in some, but not all, cases, can only be done visually. You don't want to grant a timeout request from the coach of the team that does not have player control, or the assistant coach of the team that does, or worse, from a parent sitting behind the bench who's yelling that the coach should request a timeout. How I long for the good old days? Can you hear Barbra Streisand singing in the background?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Ain't I a stinker?

And we're supposed to be shocked by this?