Mind your own business?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

And lets go back to where the ball is put back into play with an actual jump ball everytime we have a jump ball situation.

Wouldn't you like us to go all the way back to where they "jumped it up" after every field goal? After all, that's what you cut your teeth on.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by muxbule

Don't know that I agree with this and I know you profess this often but I don't have a frame of reference since I did not officiate with that rule. That said, if the coach is screaming timeout does it not stand to reason that if his players heard it they would signal and request it also. My point is, his own players did not hear it neither did the crew. Once recognized grant the timeout and I agree this all depends on what the rest of the game has been like with this coach.
Happy New Year

Coaches seem to have stopped coaching their players on making the timeout request. I haven't seen a player either initiate one or echoe one from his or her coach all season.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Coaches seem to have stopped coaching their players on making the timeout request. I haven't seen a player either initiate one or echo one from his or her coach all season.

Agree. The only requests that I get from players now, is from players who are airborne, on their way out of bounds (NFHS), or players about to get tied up in a held ball.

[BillyMac]

Connecticut interpreters send a bulletin out to all schools, through our state interscholastic athletic association, a few times each season. The December, 2008, bulletin contained this:

Coaches are reminded that requesting a time-out is not a guarantee that one will be granted. Officials must be certain that it is the head coach who is requesting a time-out, and that coach’s player has control of the ball before the time-out is granted.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

One situation in in the first half, where an offensive player gets trapped in the corner, against the division line, and the sideline. The official is looking for out of bounds, backcourt, illegal "reaching in" contact, illegal movement of the pivot foot, etc., when from the bench on the other side of the table comes a request for a time out.

What is/are the other official(s) doing? Since that's a common time for a TO request, someone should be attuned to the bench. C opposite has a great look through the play in 3-man, and L opposite can / should extend his/her vision through the players to the bench.

[JRutledge]

This is why coaches requesting timeouts are a dumb rule. Coaches do not use their players as they should to get the attention of the coach. Also, if the gym is loud, unless you are standing right next to a coach, I can see how the official would not know the coach requested a timeout. The coach needs to be happy that he did not get a technical foul.

I am sorry, but game awareness has nothing to do with this situation. I am not turning around or looking away from the court just to see a timeout request.

Peace

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is why coaches requesting timeouts are a dumb rule. Coaches do not use their players as they should to get the attention of the coach. Also, if the gym is loud, unless you are standing right next to a coach, I can see how the official would not know the coach requested a timeout. The coach needs to be happy that he did not get a technical foul.

I am sorry, but game awareness has nothing to do with this situation. I am not turning around or looking away from the court just to see a timeout request.

Peace

No but your partner should be watching your back

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

No but your partner should be watching your back

I disagree with that. The official might not be able to see the coach. This is why players need to request timeouts and coaches should be smart enough (and they are not) to have players give requests. And this is even harder in a two person system because you are looking at more players. Your focus is not on a coach. And I am not taking my eyes off players just to look at what a coach "might" be doing.

Peace

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

No but your partner should be watching your back

The T has on ball coverage so the L watches his back as you say. It's loud an the T can't hear the coach, so of course the L can't hear what the coach is saying either...all he sees is the coach walking out to the middle of the court. For all the L knows he is yelling something to his players. If the coach wants a timeout and the gym is too loud for the officials to hear his verbal request then he can either signal for a timeout or get his players to call the timeout. As I quoted the rule book earlier, a coach leaving the box creates a distinct advantage for his team. Sometimes the advantage is the coach is better able to communicate with his players, sometimes, as it was in this case, the coach was better able to communicate with the officials.

It always surprises me the lengths officials on here will go to not enforce the rules because they incorrectly believe that bad officiating caused the problem...not calling the T with 6 players because the officials messed up by allowing it to happen....not calling a double violation when the teams line up incorrectly for free throws because the officials didn't catch it ahead of time....not calling the T when the coach walks out to the middle of the floor to yell timeout because the officials couldn't hear him because the gym was so loud.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by LDUB

The T has on ball coverage so the L watches his back as you say. It's loud an the T can't hear the coach, so of course the L can't hear what the coach is saying either...all he sees is the coach walking out to the middle of the court. For all the L knows he is yelling something to his players. If the coach wants a timeout and the gym is too loud for the officials to hear his verbal request then he can either signal for a timeout or get his players to call the timeout. As I quoted the rule book earlier, a coach leaving the box creates a distinct advantage for his team. Sometimes the advantage is the coach is better able to communicate with his players, sometimes, as it was in this case, the coach was better able to communicate with the officials.

It always surprises me the lengths officials on here will go to not enforce the rules because they incorrectly believe that bad officiating caused the problem...not calling the T with 6 players because the officials messed up by allowing it to happen....not calling a double violation when the teams line up incorrectly for free throws because the officials didn't catch it ahead of time....not calling the T when the coach walks out to the middle of the floor to yell timeout because the officials couldn't hear him because the gym was so loud.

First of all, prior to administering the throw-in the ball is dead. I don't have a real problem with a coach outside the coaches box while play is stopped and the ball is dead. Second, I still maintain that prior to a throw-in the L has a responsibility to make sure everything is in order before signalling his partner to go ahead and administer the throw-in.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

First of all, prior to administering the throw-in the ball is dead. I don't have a real problem with a coach outside the coaches box while play is stopped and the ball is dead. Second, I still maintain that prior to a throw-in the L has a responsibility to make sure everything is in order before signalling his partner to go ahead and administer the throw-in.

The ball was live in the OP.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by LDUB

First off the officials did not "screw the pooch". Every time there is a thread about rules we would like to see changed multiple people always suggest not allowing coaches to request timeouts. It is hard to do, it is a hassle. Sometimes the officials will miss a timeout request because they are not looking in the direction of the bench.

Neither one of the officials ignored his legitimate request. They were not aware that he was requesting a timeout. It is not the officials fault that the gym was loud and they could not hear the coach calling timeout.

The NCAA rules say "Coaches are expected to remain in the coaching box. To do otherwise results in a distinct advantage that is not within the spirit and intent of the rules." The coach leaving the box created a distinct advantage for his team. Had he not left the box the team would not have been granted a timeout. If I was the opposing coach in this game and you didn't call the T you can be sure that I would find my way to the middle of the court while the ball is live at some point in the game. If you're going to allow the other coach to gain an advantage by walking out to the middle of the court I'm for sure going to try to help my team out by doing the same thing.

LDUB:

Anybody who knows me will tell you that I have a near "zero" tolerance for unsportsmanlike conduct; just ask my two sons about the lectures I gave them concerning the type of behavior I expected of them as athletes, even my wife has gets a "dirty" look from me when she lets the umpires know they are lacking in their performances (she may be correct, but nobody in the stands would ever know what my opinion is of the officiating).

I and several others have stressed game awareness. The noise level may have been very high, but the T was OOT, meaning he should, I have previously stated, been looking through the players. I think that I am smart enough to recongnize the difference between a coach out on the court to coach his team or display his displeasure with the officicating and him requesting a TO.

A case in point is the 2004 YBOA Boys' National Championship. I had a 9U pool play game early in the tournament. Early in the third quarter I was T Table Side. A1 was holding the ball at the top of the key when A-HC left his coaching box to run out onto the court and picked up A2 who was standing about six feet below the free-throw line extended and carried him to a spot about three feet above the free-throw line extended. My immediate repsonse was: WHACK!!

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Daryl was not officiating the game with me.

[Adam]

Mark, if the coach wants a timeout in a noisy gym, don't you think he's obligated to use a hand signal for it before resorting to crossing the court?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What is/are the other official(s) doing?

In the Land of Steady Habits, 95% or our games are two person games, but you are correct in one respect, as I stated in an earlier post, a good partner would certainly help in this case, unless he, or she, has some post, or screen, type problems to deal with in their own PCA.

[mj]

Originally Posted by LDUB

The ball was live in the OP.

The OP says the T was administering a throw-in. It is not clear if the ball was live imo.