Mind your own business?

[Ignats75]

OK, let me understand this.

Crew has little or no game awareness as well as absolutely no hearing. Therefore coach cannot get a reasonably requested timeout, so you want to whack him? Exactly how many more games do you want to do for that assignor?

I'm not known as Mr T for nothing and even I wouldn't even begin to think about a T in that situation. No way am I whacking anyone in that situation. The most I would do is say, "Sorry coach, I'm married with six kids. I can't hear squat."

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Therefore coach cannot get a reasonably requested timeout, so you want to whack him?

A request by the coach is no longer reasonable when it comes from the center
of the court.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A request by the coach is no longer reasonable when it comes from the center
of the court.

just another ref:

Ignats is correct on this. While no wants to see a HC out on the court in this fashion, the officals screwed the pooch, as our umpiring brethern would say, in this situation. If a coach is continually requesting a TO during a ThI and neither officials ignore his legitimate requests for a TO, then they have to suck the TF back into their whistles and man-up to their poor game and court awareness.

MTD, Sr.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

While no wants to see a HC out on the court in this fashion, the officals screwed the pooch, as our umpiring brethern would say, in this situation. If a coach is continually requesting a TO during a ThI and neither officials ignore his legitimate requests for a TO, then they have to suck the TF back into their whistles and man-up to their poor game and court awareness.

First off the officials did not "screw the pooch". Every time there is a thread about rules we would like to see changed multiple people always suggest not allowing coaches to request timeouts. It is hard to do, it is a hassle. Sometimes the officials will miss a timeout request because they are not looking in the direction of the bench.

Neither one of the officials ignored his legitimate request. They were not aware that he was requesting a timeout. It is not the officials fault that the gym was loud and they could not hear the coach calling timeout.

The NCAA rules say "Coaches are expected to remain in the coaching box. To do otherwise results in a distinct advantage that is not within the spirit and intent of the rules." The coach leaving the box created a distinct advantage for his team. Had he not left the box the team would not have been granted a timeout. If I was the opposing coach in this game and you didn't call the T you can be sure that I would find my way to the middle of the court while the ball is live at some point in the game. If you're going to allow the other coach to gain an advantage by walking out to the middle of the court I'm for sure going to try to help my team out by doing the same thing.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Every time there is a thread about rules we would like to see changed multiple people always suggest not allowing coaches to request timeouts. It is hard to do, it is a hassle. Sometimes the officials will miss a timeout request because they are not looking in the direction of the bench.

I'm one of those multiple people. Game awareness will certainly help, a lot, but there are situations where it is unbelievably difficult to grant a request for a timeout. One situation in in the first half, where an offensive player gets trapped in the corner, against the division line, and the sideline. The official is looking for out of bounds, backcourt, illegal "reaching in" contact, illegal movement of the pivot foot, etc., when from the bench on the other side of the table comes a request for a time out. If you think this is an easy situation to grant a timeout, then you haven't been officiating very long. The other situation involves players on the floor trying to get control of a loose ball. The official is looking for any one of a variety of violations, any one of a variety of fouls, or a held ball, when a voice from the bench requests a timeout. Again, if you think this is an easy situation to grant a timeout, then you haven't been officiating very long.

Game awareness helps. A good partner helps. But let's go back to the old rule where only players on the court could request a timeout.

Happy New Year.

[muxbule]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

But let's go back to the old rule where only players on the court could request a timeout.

Don't know that I agree with this and I know you profess this often but I don't have a frame of reference since I did not officiate with that rule. That said, if the coach is screaming timeout does it not stand to reason that if his players heard it they would signal and request it also. My point is, his own players did not hear it neither did the crew. Once recognized grant the timeout and I agree this all depends on what the rest of the game has been like with this coach.
Happy New Year

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by muxbule

If the coach is screaming timeout does it not stand to reason that if his players heard it they would signal and request it also.

Simple answer, at least for games here in my little corner of the Constitution State, no.

And don't forget, after an official hears the timeout request, he, or she, has to make sure that it's made by the head coach of the team that has player control, which, in some, but not all, cases, can only be done visually. You don't want to grant a timeout request from the coach of the team that does not have player control, or the assistant coach of the team that does, or worse, from a parent sitting behind the bench who's yelling that the coach should request a timeout. How I long for the good old days? Can you hear Barbra Streisand singing in the background?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by muxbule

Don't know that I agree with this and I know you profess this often but I don't have a frame of reference since I did not officiate with that rule. That said, if the coach is screaming timeout does it not stand to reason that if his players heard it they would signal and request it also. My point is, his own players did not hear it neither did the crew. Once recognized grant the timeout and I agree this all depends on what the rest of the game has been like with this coach.
Happy New Year

Coaches seem to have stopped coaching their players on making the timeout request. I haven't seen a player either initiate one or echoe one from his or her coach all season.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

But let's go back to the old rule where only players on the court could request a timeout.

Happy New Year.

And lets go back to where the ball is put back into play with an actual jump ball everytime we have a jump ball situation (get rid of Alternating Possession). Ain't I a stinker, .

Happy New Year!

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Ain't I a stinker?

And we're supposed to be shocked by this?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

And lets go back to where the ball is put back into play with an actual jump ball everytime we have a jump ball situation.

Wouldn't you like us to go all the way back to where they "jumped it up" after every field goal? After all, that's what you cut your teeth on.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

One situation in in the first half, where an offensive player gets trapped in the corner, against the division line, and the sideline. The official is looking for out of bounds, backcourt, illegal "reaching in" contact, illegal movement of the pivot foot, etc., when from the bench on the other side of the table comes a request for a time out.

What is/are the other official(s) doing? Since that's a common time for a TO request, someone should be attuned to the bench. C opposite has a great look through the play in 3-man, and L opposite can / should extend his/her vision through the players to the bench.

[JRutledge]

This is why coaches requesting timeouts are a dumb rule. Coaches do not use their players as they should to get the attention of the coach. Also, if the gym is loud, unless you are standing right next to a coach, I can see how the official would not know the coach requested a timeout. The coach needs to be happy that he did not get a technical foul.

I am sorry, but game awareness has nothing to do with this situation. I am not turning around or looking away from the court just to see a timeout request.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What is/are the other official(s) doing?

In the Land of Steady Habits, 95% or our games are two person games, but you are correct in one respect, as I stated in an earlier post, a good partner would certainly help in this case, unless he, or she, has some post, or screen, type problems to deal with in their own PCA.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by LDUB

First off the officials did not "screw the pooch". Every time there is a thread about rules we would like to see changed multiple people always suggest not allowing coaches to request timeouts. It is hard to do, it is a hassle. Sometimes the officials will miss a timeout request because they are not looking in the direction of the bench.

Neither one of the officials ignored his legitimate request. They were not aware that he was requesting a timeout. It is not the officials fault that the gym was loud and they could not hear the coach calling timeout.

The NCAA rules say "Coaches are expected to remain in the coaching box. To do otherwise results in a distinct advantage that is not within the spirit and intent of the rules." The coach leaving the box created a distinct advantage for his team. Had he not left the box the team would not have been granted a timeout. If I was the opposing coach in this game and you didn't call the T you can be sure that I would find my way to the middle of the court while the ball is live at some point in the game. If you're going to allow the other coach to gain an advantage by walking out to the middle of the court I'm for sure going to try to help my team out by doing the same thing.

LDUB:

Anybody who knows me will tell you that I have a near "zero" tolerance for unsportsmanlike conduct; just ask my two sons about the lectures I gave them concerning the type of behavior I expected of them as athletes, even my wife has gets a "dirty" look from me when she lets the umpires know they are lacking in their performances (she may be correct, but nobody in the stands would ever know what my opinion is of the officiating).

I and several others have stressed game awareness. The noise level may have been very high, but the T was OOT, meaning he should, I have previously stated, been looking through the players. I think that I am smart enough to recongnize the difference between a coach out on the court to coach his team or display his displeasure with the officicating and him requesting a TO.

A case in point is the 2004 YBOA Boys' National Championship. I had a 9U pool play game early in the tournament. Early in the third quarter I was T Table Side. A1 was holding the ball at the top of the key when A-HC left his coaching box to run out onto the court and picked up A2 who was standing about six feet below the free-throw line extended and carried him to a spot about three feet above the free-throw line extended. My immediate repsonse was: WHACK!!

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Daryl was not officiating the game with me.