Mind your own business?

[mj]

Originally Posted by LDUB

It always surprises me the lengths officials on here will go to not enforce the rules because they incorrectly believe that bad officiating caused the problem...not calling the T with 6 players because the officials messed up by allowing it to happen....not calling a double violation when the teams line up incorrectly for free throws because the officials didn't catch it ahead of time....not calling the T when the coach walks out to the middle of the floor to yell timeout because the officials couldn't hear him because the gym was so loud.

That is because all of the above situations are preventable if you know the game situation and simply slow down. We talk about game management on this board all the time and these are prime examples of such.

[OHBBREF]

This is the responsibility of the officials and it could have benn handled better, I would hope that as the lead I would have seen the coach on the floor and blown my whistle to find out what we had, I would have been aproaching the caoch asking "coach you want a time out?" if he says no WHACK if he says yes it is granted and there is no problem.

The part of this that concerns me is the aggressive, nature of the official going in the Huddle talking with the coach, that is not what I want to see on a floor I'm on.
I can see having a conversation with the coach about putting you in a bad position by wandering out on the floor, but that needs to be a quiet conversation about the right way to go about things, so that there isn't a situation that is going to possibly result in a technical.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Trail tossed the ball to the lead, then proceeded to step into the huddle and engage in a spirited discussion with the coach, gesturing emphatically to the coaches box.

Let me guess, the trail came to the game dressed in his uniform?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let me guess, the trail came to the game dressed in his uniform?

Didn't actually see him come in, but I feel certain that he did. That is relevant at this point because...........

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Didn't actually see him come in, but I feel certain that he did. That is relevant at this point because...........

It would indicate that the Trail was completely in over his head as a Varsity official due to his lack of professionalism and game management skills.

I keep trying to picture this situation in my mind and everytime I do, I can't get past one key fact: If the officials made eye contact and were working together, this situation almost couldn't have happened. Literally, the mechanics of inbounding the ball only after making sure your partner was ready and things were OK would've surely caused the LEAD to see the coach yelling at the TRAIL and probably be able to decerne that he wanted SOMETHING. That alone should've required the LEAD to put his hand up to hold the Thrown-in until he figured out what the coach wanted wothout him having to come onto the floor. The more I think about this, the more I think the officials not only "screwed the pooch", but the whole darn pound.

Therefore its almost like they either didn't have a pregame, or were so over their heads with the game that they forgot their fundamentals.

[just another ref]

I can't get over how many nice guys we have here who accept the coach in the middle of the floor in this situation. What if a sub comes to the table and we all miss it? No horn.....Nobody beckons.....nothing. Can the coach grab his sub by the arm and drag him onto the court?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Should the refs have recognized the request in this situation? perhaps

Does this justify the actions of the coach? no way

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

It would indicate that the Trail was completely in over his head as a Varsity official due to his lack of professionalism and game management skills.

If you arrive in uniform it indicates that you lack professionalism and game management skills. Of course. I should have known.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I can't get over how many nice guys we have here who accept the coach in the middle of the floor in this situation. What if a sub comes to the table and we all miss it? No horn.....Nobody beckons.....nothing. Can the coach grab his sub by the arm and drag him onto the court?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Should the refs have recognized the request in this situation? perhaps

Does this justify the actions of the coach? no way

Two entirely different scenarios. Your hypothetical is sooo out of left field as to be irrelevant. And if you can't recognize the difference, I would be worried about your judgement.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Didn't actually see him come in, but I feel certain that he did. That is relevant at this point because...........

It's not, I was just adding some levity.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I can't get over how many nice guys we have here who accept the coach in the middle of the floor in this situation. What if a sub comes to the table and we all miss it? No horn.....Nobody beckons.....nothing. Can the coach grab his sub by the arm and drag him onto the court?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Should the refs have recognized the request in this situation? perhaps

Does this justify the actions of the coach? no way

Frankly, I'm with you on this one. I keep harping on this, but unless he's also signalling the TO as he's walking and shouting, I might have a T as Lead before the trail gets the TO called.

If, however, I delayed and the trail calls the TO, I'm backing away at this point.

[mj]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I can't get over how many nice guys we have here who accept the coach in the middle of the floor in this situation. What if a sub comes to the table and we all miss it? No horn.....Nobody beckons.....nothing. Can the coach grab his sub by the arm and drag him onto the court?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Should the refs have recognized the request in this situation? perhaps

Does this justify the actions of the coach? no way

Simple game management again. The subs should easily be recognized by either official during the dead ball.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It's not, I was just adding some levity.

Levity? That's when a person is magically lifted off the ground? Maybe you could have used that to get that coach off the court.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by mj

That is because all of the above situations are preventable if you know the game situation and simply slow down. We talk about game management on this board all the time and these are prime examples of such.

Of course it is a mistake which could have been avoided, but what does that have to do with not penalizing it? The way to handle the situation is clearly outlined in the rules. Are you friend with the guy who wrote that article about the NBA game with 6 players?

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Of course it is a mistake which could have been avoided, but what does that have to do with not penalizing it? The way to handle the situation is clearly outlined in the rules. Are you friend with the guy who wrote that article about the NBA game with 6 players?

So your judgement is that you would rectify a problem that was caused by your mistake with a Technical Foul? Exactly how long did you plan on refereeing at the varsity level. Being afraid to whack a coach would cost you games around here, but whacking a coach when you were too proud to admit you messed up will cost you just as dearly around here. No one is arguing that the coach should not be on the floor. However, the reasons that the problem developed are mitigating factors.

• If the officials used their game management and awareness skills there wouldn't be a problem.
• The ball was still dead when the coach first started to request the timeout.
• There are other times that we as officials do not enforce the letter of the law...Advantage/Disadvantage....Three Seconds...etc
• The spirit of the rule is to prevent unsporting behavior by the coaches. The only unsporting act in this scenario is the eggregous lack of game management by the officials multiplied by the TRAIL invading the coach's huddle

I still can't believe that a crew would start an inbounding play as described in the OP.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If you arrive in uniform it indicates that you lack professionalism and game management skills. Of course. I should have known.

I don't know that it *indicates* a lack of ... skills, but there is a stron correlation with the lack of ... skills, assuming the game was a scholastic game at a higher level than Frosh (the specific levels vary by area).