Mind your own business?

[just another ref]

BV two whistle. Gym is crowded and pretty noisy. Trail is inbounding the ball opposite the visitors bench near the division line. Home coach, standing in the box yells timeout. Trail apparently didn't hear him. He took a step out onto the court and repeated the request a bit louder. No response. He took another step, and another, continuing to get louder. He was close to the center of the court when the trail finally spotted him. I'm thinking "Now he done it." Trail stepped briskly toward the coach, visibly annoyed, I thought, and granted the timeout. If not now, when? Trail tossed the ball to the lead, then proceeded to step into the huddle and engage in a spirited discussion with the coach, gesturing emphatically to the coaches box. To make a long story short, (too late) that was it. My question. If you are the lead on this play, at what point, if any would you not call the T from there? It is up to each to judge how far is too far, when it comes to a coach out of the box, whether asking for timeout or whatever reason. But if I'm the lead, as much as I think the coach had it coming, I don't think I would go literally get between him and my partner to hand it out. In other words, once he blew his whistle for the timeout, as far as I'm concerned the decision not to call the T has been made. As much as I may disagree with it, I think it wrong to step over my partner in this situation.

The floor is open.

[refnrev]

My first reaction is that this is but one more reason to hate 2 whistle in boys V! Also, did YOU hear the request for the TO? If not I get it, but if so, why didn't you grant it?

[Adam]

Loud gym, grant the timeout. IMO

Call the T if you want, IMO.

But do not get into the huddle and have an argument with the coach during his TO.

BTW, if I'm lead on this, I'll grant the TO even if I can't quite hear it. No excuse not to.

[icallfouls]

Grant the TO.

Loud gym, close game, official focused on players, the officials need to be aware that coach might want to request a TO.

I am sure that there is a ref in nevada that would say a T is a must in this situation tho

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

But do not get into the huddle and have an argument with the coach during his TO.

I thought this was a given.

BTW, if I'm lead on this, I'll grant the TO even if I can't quite hear it. No excuse not to.

I don't follow this. How would you know to grant it if you didn't hear it?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by refnrev

My first reaction is that this is but one more reason to hate 2 whistle in boys V! Also, did YOU hear the request for the TO? If not I get it, but if so, why didn't you grant it?

I was sitting in the stands behind the bench. I assume the lead didn't hear it, since he was farther away than the trail, who obviously didn't hear it at first.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Grant the TO.

Loud gym, close game, official focused on players, the officials need to be aware that coach might want to request a TO.

I am sure that there is a ref in nevada that would say a T is a must in this situation tho

The coach was standing in the middle of the court. I agree with the ref from nevada in this case.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't follow this. How would you know to grant it if you didn't hear it?

The point is that one of them should have heard it. The L really doesn't have anything going on yet, so could easily have helped this situation by having some awareness of what's going on and getting the TO for the coach.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

just another ref:

After reading your OP I have a few questions:

(1) Did this happen in the first half or the second half?

(2) Which team, H or V, was making the Throw-in (ThI)?

(2) Did the H-HC make his request before the ball became live for the ThI?


The answers to these questions will determine how I would respond. BUT that has never stopped me from giving throwing my two cents into the discussion. Therefore, let me make some assumptions and go from there.

Assumptions Set (1):

Question (1): First Half.

Question (2): Team H's ThI.

Question (3): The answer to this question is moot because it is Team H's ThI.

Solution Set (1): Two-Person Officiating Crews (TPOC) have unique problems regarding TO requests. TPOC theory requries two (2) eyes on-the-ball (OnB) and two (2) eyes off-the-ball (OfB) (but still watching the players on the court). This means the last thing the Table Side Official (TSO) should do is to take his eyes away from the players on the court to see which coach is requesting a TO. The T, as the Official Opposite the Table (OOT) in this play, must be aware of possible TO requests from both benches. That means the T must officiate OnB while looking through the players to be aware of TO requests from the benches. Having said that, it does not mean the L, as the TSO, should not ingnore a TO request if it is made during the proper time frame, especially when the OOT doesn't see the TO request being made from the Benches.

It can been seen that the responsiblities that I have outlined in SS-1 can be applied no matter how Question (1), (2), and (3) are answered.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Happy New Year!! and GO BUCKEYES!!

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The coach was standing in the middle of the court. I agree with the ref from nevada in this case.

You're going to penalize a coach for your inability to hear a request for TO? All he wanted was a TO and his request could not be heard.

A T in this situation will only lead to the 2nd T on the coach. It will also cement your status as "just another ref"

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I thought this was a given.

I would have thought so, too. The official in the OP, apparently, did not.

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't follow this. How would you know to grant it if you didn't hear it?

Situational awareness. I know we're supposed to hear and see, but in this case if the coach is clearly making his way, ever so slowly, onto the court with his hands in the T sign and mouthing the words "Time Out," I'll consider this close a case where seeing is enough.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat the IW and we'll move on. The ball's already dead.

[just another ref]

Did I do that poor a job of describing things? The point of this thread was not even about the failure to grant the time out. I was asking if anyone would call the T from the lead after the trail had granted the time out and was obviously not going to call one.

This all happened with about 3 minutes to go in a close game. Visitors set to inbound. Ball had not become live. Another thing which may or may not be significant. The coach made no TO signal whatsoever, in great contrast to many who jump up and down and wave frantically to attract the officials attention. This guy simply walked in a straight line toward the trail, yelling his request over and over.

I think some of the kids now actually do not even realize that they, too, can make the timeout request. Earlier that same day in a girls game, I'm trail. Point guard stops near the division line. Defense is packed in a zone. I saw the girl look toward the bench. I heard the coach say "Point," a couple of times. I turned to look and the coach was signaling the timeout. I realized afterward the coach was trying to get her player to point at her, so I would look and see the signal. Wouldn't it be easier to have the players be aware that they should also make the signal?

Back to the OP. I think most of us have agreed after numerous discussions that almost nothing is an automatic T. But if a coach is standing that close to the center of the court as the ball is about to be put in play, unless he is trying to tell me the building is on fire or something equally important, he probably has one coming.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

You're going to penalize a coach for your inability to hear a request for TO? All he wanted was a TO and his request could not be heard.

A T in this situation will only lead to the 2nd T on the coach. It will also cement your status as "just another ref"

So where do you draw the line? When he walks up and slaps you to get your attention?

[Adam]

This different than I pictured it. As Trail, I'd probably call the T on this. As Lead, I wouldn't call the T after the Trail had already granted the TO.

[Ignats75]

OK, let me understand this.

Crew has little or no game awareness as well as absolutely no hearing. Therefore coach cannot get a reasonably requested timeout, so you want to whack him? Exactly how many more games do you want to do for that assignor?

I'm not known as Mr T for nothing and even I wouldn't even begin to think about a T in that situation. No way am I whacking anyone in that situation. The most I would do is say, "Sorry coach, I'm married with six kids. I can't hear squat."