Angry Coach at Halftime

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Tell me where it says our authority stops on the court? There is nothing anywhere that suggests the media rule is an exception to some policy stopping our jurisdiction at the closed doors of the locker room.

I have nothing that allows us specifically in the locker room.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

In all those years of "upper levels," how many times have you heard of such a speech being heard by the officials?

Actually quite a few times, I have been in officals locker rooms that are next to team rooms and heard people and officials get called several wonderful expletives, players and other teams called things that are inappropriate, and once I was getting dressed for my game and heard the visiting coach outside the locker room speaking about how bad the JV officals were while they were in the locker room. it comes up maybe not this blatant but I would say that this comes up once or twice a year.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Again, where does it say your jurisdiction stops at the door?

I am going from the opposite angle - where do we get the authority.
I am interested in some official response.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

I have nothing that allows us specifically in the locker room.

You don't have to go into the locker room any more than you have to go into the huddle. it's not like we've got the place wired.

To go back to your legalese, if a cop smells marijuana coming from the car, probable cause has been given. If I hear him directly calling me a cheat using expletives in the process, I may have to call the T.

You've got a direct case play indicating that the coach is not immune from the rules even in the confines of his closed locker room. There is nothing that indicates this jurisdiction is an exception.

That said, my threshold for a T is going to be higher here than on the court. If he swears at his players in the locker room, I've got nothing. But taking the opportunity to accuse us of cheating is over the line.

[just another ref]

As far as the geographical limits of the officials jurisdiction:

2-2-1: The officials shall make decisions for infractions of the rules committed within or outside the boundary lines.


That pretty much covers everywhere, doesn't it?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by just another ref

As far as the geographical limits of the officials jurisdiction:

2-2-1: The officials shall make decisions for infractions of the rules committed within or outside the boundary lines.


That pretty much covers everywhere, doesn't it?

So the rule book says it is the official's decision. It does not say the official SHALL or MUST give a T to the coach for something he says in the locker room at halftime. It is a decision. Some would call the T...some wouldn't.

For any official to call another a coward, or question their parenting skills, or their moral fiber simply because that official doesn't see this situation the same way as they do is flat-out wrong. It does nothing more than show the kind of person the name-caller truly is.

[Adam]

All I know is this fence doesn't feel good on my back side.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

All I know is this fence doesn't feel good on my back side.

Watch out for splinters.

I would call the T. I don't think my jurisdiction stops at half-time. However, if someone else chooses not to - that's fine. That is their decision. It doesn't hurt the game of basketball if we don't call it. Basketball has been around far too long for one whiny coach to damage the game. Neither does it erode society if we don't call it.

A far bigger problem for basketball is officials who feel free to call their brethren things like "coward" when the brethren won't call something the way that person wants it called. That is what is disturbing...

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

A far bigger problem for basketball is officials who feel free to call their brethren things like "coward" when the brethren won't call something the way that person wants it called. That is what is disturbing...

Agreed. I find this unacceptable.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So the rule book says it is the official's decision. It does not say the official SHALL or MUST give a T to the coach for something he says in the locker room at halftime. It is a decision. Some would call the T...some wouldn't.

For any official to call another a coward, or question their parenting skills, or their moral fiber simply because that official doesn't see this situation the same way as they do is flat-out wrong. It does nothing more than show the kind of person the name-caller truly is.

Easy, buddy. Don't shoot the messenger. I was just saying that I find this sufficient proof that the technical can indeed be called in the locker room if the official decides it is merited. Just to clarify, some of you that would not call the T in the locker room, is there an instance where you would call it for the same remarks overheard coming from the huddle, or is this still considered to be a private place?

As far as how much is too much in this situation, I find the combination of the comments being "obscenity-laced," along with the use of the word "biased," to be two big strikes. If, on top of this, the officials are reasonably certain that the coach knows they hear him, I have no trouble with the T call.

Having said all this, I am uncertain how the coach gets the news. Do we knock on the door? "Coach, my partner is at the table reporting a technical foul on you for your comments. Your coaches box is gone for the second half. If you wish to see the second half, you should knock it off now."

Or simply say that he's earned the right to finish and settle up when everybody returns from the locker room?

[TussAgee11]

Great thread.

I'm trying to relate it to my sport, baseball - but its near impossible since baseball has no intermission.

Anyways, thought I would throw a thought out there.

What about ignoring it during the half, and then getting the guy the first time he says ANYTHING to you in the 2nd half. If you can slip in a "That's enough" beforehand, great, if not, don't sweat it.

I am envisioning coming back into a gym, and nobody there (including those that are on your side, admins and scorekeepers) knowing what happened in the locker room. Our job is to a) do our job and b) keep a good perception in doing that job.

You're going to catch ALOT of **** for directly dealing with this locker room stuff during that game, and maybe even from assignors in the future.

I don't like baiting, but sometimes in baseball anyways, my mind is made up about a guy, and I want to get rid of him or at least tell him "that's enough," but I can't do it at that time because of other circumstances (in this case, it could be the locker room).

So first chance you do get, maybe an throw-in in front of his bench, give him a "Coach, I didn't make out all of that half-time speech? Care to repeat?" If he comes back with a yes, you got him. Comes back with a no, give him a "Guess I'll have to yell through the showers at you after the game." Say something like that, and I can't imagine any coach keeping his mouth shut. Bam, got him.

And its out in the open, we got a T, 2,000 people saw him lose it, and only 2 people know what was really said, you and him.

Not baiting, just slight manipulation to get what you want without the negative consequences of leaving him in the locker room at half. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Great thread.

It's about to get even better

I predict 13 pgs.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Great thread.

I'm trying to relate it to my sport, baseball - but its near impossible since baseball has no intermission.

Anyways, thought I would throw a thought out there.

What about ignoring it during the half, and then getting the guy the first time he says ANYTHING to you in the 2nd half. If you can slip in a "That's enough" beforehand, great, if not, don't sweat it.

I am envisioning coming back into a gym, and nobody there (including those that are on your side, admins and scorekeepers) knowing what happened in the locker room. Our job is to a) do our job and b) keep a good perception in doing that job.

You're going to catch ALOT of **** for directly dealing with this locker room stuff during that game, and maybe even from assignors in the future.

I don't like baiting, but sometimes in baseball anyways, my mind is made up about a guy, and I want to get rid of him or at least tell him "that's enough," but I can't do it at that time because of other circumstances (in this case, it could be the locker room).

So first chance you do get, maybe an throw-in in front of his bench, give him a "Coach, I didn't make out all of that half-time speech? Care to repeat?" If he comes back with a yes, you got him. Comes back with a no, give him a "Guess I'll have to yell through the showers at you after the game." Say something like that, and I can't imagine any coach keeping his mouth shut. Bam, got him.

And its out in the open, we got a T, 2,000 people saw him lose it, and only 2 people know what was really said, you and him.

Not baiting, just slight manipulation to get what you want without the negative consequences of leaving him in the locker room at half. Just a thought.

Wow, I disagree with this post on every possible level.
The poster shies away from dealing with the unsporting conduct because he is afraid of taking some heat for do so, but then actually advocates trying to bait and manipulate the coach into a technical foul later in the game in order to make up for it.
Why not take the high road and conduct yourself in an upstanding manner and take care of business with the coach. You'll certainly get less grief for trying to deal with this the right way than by attempting some underhanded method.

[Daryl H. Long]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Great thread.

I'm trying to relate it to my sport, baseball - but its near impossible since baseball has no intermission.

Anyways, thought I would throw a thought out there.

What about ignoring it during the half, and then getting the guy the first time he says ANYTHING to you in the 2nd half. If you can slip in a "That's enough" beforehand, great, if not, don't sweat it.

I am envisioning coming back into a gym, and nobody there (including those that are on your side, admins and scorekeepers) knowing what happened in the locker room. Our job is to a) do our job and b) keep a good perception in doing that job.

You're going to catch ALOT of **** for directly dealing with this locker room stuff during that game, and maybe even from assignors in the future.

I don't like baiting, but sometimes in baseball anyways, my mind is made up about a guy, and I want to get rid of him or at least tell him "that's enough," but I can't do it at that time because of other circumstances (in this case, it could be the locker room).

So first chance you do get, maybe an throw-in in front of his bench, give him a "Coach, I didn't make out all of that half-time speech? Care to repeat?" If he comes back with a yes, you got him. Comes back with a no, give him a "Guess I'll have to yell through the showers at you after the game." Say something like that, and I can't imagine any coach keeping his mouth shut. Bam, got him.

And its out in the open, we got a T, 2,000 people saw him lose it, and only 2 people know what was really said, you and him.

Not baiting, just slight manipulation to get what you want without the negative consequences of leaving him in the locker room at half. Just a thought.

To bait or not to bait? that is the question. No, better just use slight manipulation.

My dictionary defines manipulation as: "management with use of unfair, scheming, or underhanded methods esp. for ones own advantage.

FYI...unfair, scheming, and underhanded are not complimentary words used to describe acceptable behavior.

I have been pondering this last sentence. It's a good thing some of us are anonymous on this board as your words reek of unethical behavior in (forgive the analogy) biblical proportions.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Gentlemen:

I have read a number of posts in this thread since my first post. Many of these posts quoted various NFHS Basketball Rules that could possibly be applied to this situation. BUT you do not want to go where many people want to go. DO NOT charge the HC with a TF!

Charging the HC with TF in this situation is a no win situation because it cannot be defended by rule, now matter how many different rules are quoted.

No one will ever accuse me of being a namby pamby when it comes to sportsmanlike behavior, BUT, I am not going to charge the HC with a TF in this situation. Baseball and softball umpires have a saying: Don't go looking for boogers. Charging the HC with a TF in this situation is a Jimmy Durante's nose full of boogers.

AND, there are many many ways that the officials can take care of this HC once the second half begins. And I am sure that there are many many officials who are very very diligent in applying the appropriate Secions of Rule 10 that apply to misconduct of the HC while the game is actually being played.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Gentlemen:

I have read a number of posts in this thread since my first post. Many of these posts quoted various NFHS Basketball Rules that could possibly be applied to this situation. BUT you do not want to go where many people want to go. DO NOT charge the HC with a TF!

Charging the HC with TF in this situation is a no win situation because it cannot be defended by rule, now matter how many different rules are quoted.

No one will ever accuse me of being a namby pamby when it comes to sportsmanlike behavior, BUT, I am not going to charge the HC with a TF in this situation. Baseball and softball umpires have a saying: Don't go looking for boogers. Charging the HC with a TF in this situation is a Jimmy Durante's nose full of boogers.

AND, there are many many ways that the officials can take care of this HC once the second half begins. And I am sure that there are many many officials who are very very diligent in applying the appropriate Secions of Rule 10 that apply to misconduct of the HC while the game is actually being played.

MTD, Sr.

Mark, I have yet to be told why the rules and case plays don't apply.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Charging the HC with TF in this situation is a no win situation because it cannot be defended by rule, now matter how many different rules are quoted.

If you don't want to call the foul, whatever I don't care, that is up to you. But you can't sit here and say that the rules do not allow calling the foul. You know that is wrong. The officials have jurisdiction everywhere until the game ends.