players with 4 fouls

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

One thing that could be said is have a patient whistle, see the end of every play before making a decision to put air on something. This will hopefully lead to calling obvious fouls and decrease the likelihood of the cheap foul. Part of my pregame is precisely: call the fouls that are obvious, dont guess, stay in our primarys (unless it is a non basketball play).

This usually assures that a player earns their fouls.

And by the way, a foul early is not always a foul late, as the game changes so does the call selection. I know that there are plenty here that will disagree, but it is a fact and for anyone here to say that they call it the same every play is .... I will withold my comment

Couple of thoughts. I want to know if a player has 4, and usually I never have to ask because I'll know. The talk about star players getting protected is bogus and a weak argument. First, the only time fouling out is an issue with the players, coahces, and schools is when the game is close down the stretch and a player is important to his team. That said, when this occurs, knowing ther player has 4 gives you the option of trying to prevent him from getting his 5th. "Hey, you got 4, be smart" has helped me a lot, but unless the player likes and trusts you, this tool is unavailable. The other one is "high certainty". I know everyone here is so good that they are always on super focus mode, always 100% certain of all their calls, and never guess because they are always in the best position at all times. I'll never protect any player--star or not--but I will remind myself and work very hard mentally in a close game down rthe stretch to have "high certainty" on every whistle. That maximizes your chances of being successful anyway, but also helps you with how the crew is perceived when a player does foul out.

The trouble always starts when "high certainty" is not obvious on these types of calls. Both sides are right. A foul in minute 1 is a foul in minute 40, but you do control your focus and can apply "high certainty" every single time in the last 2-3 minutes of a close game. None of us can do that for 40 minutes every time we work. That's why we're human.

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

"Hey, you got 4, be smart"

Since when is it your job to coach the players? If I'm the opposing coach, it would sure sound like favoritism to me.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Since when is it your job to coach the players? If I'm the opposing coach, it would sure sound like favoritism to me.

Of course it's favoritism. We favor players over coaches.

[Adam]

The only time I tell a player to be smart is when he looks like he's getting frustrated and might get a T.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The only time I tell a player to be smart is when he looks like he's getting frustrated and might get a T.

being aware that a player has four fouls and telling everyone in the building you are aware that that player has four fouls are two different things.

I would never tell a player to watch it you have four fouls, I would tell a player to be smart, or take a deep breath, or watch it - now is not the time to be get a case of the stupids, to avoid the player doing something that has consequences.

But the discussion of how many fouls a player has is just asking for trouble - especially when s/he turns and say's "Go ahead a## @*$% give me my fifth!"

[Back In The Saddle]

What can I say? You can't fix stupid.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Since when is it your job to coach the players? If I'm the opposing coach, it would sure sound like favoritism to me.

That's coaching a player? Besides, how would you even know what I said to a player? You wouldn't. Too funny. Good thing my people skills defuse paranoia.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

That's coaching a player? Besides, how would you even know what I said to a player? You wouldn't. Too funny. Good thing my people skills defuse paranoia.

Players talk.

Coach: "Hey, Bobby, what'd the ref say to you?"
Bobby: "He said I have four fouls and to play smart."

And that's just Bobby's coach that's going to be upset with you.

Yeah, that's coaching the kids. If that's okay where you ref, so be it; but it wouldn't be okay any place I've reffed.
Coach: "Hey, Billy, what'd the ref say to #24 red?"
Billy: "He said he had 4 fouls and to play smart."

Coach: "That's three seconds!"
Official: "Coach, I can't have you officiating from the bench like that."
Coach: "Why not, you've been coaching from the court."

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Players talk.

Coach: "Hey, Bobby, what'd the ref say to you?"
Bobby: "He said I have four fouls and to play smart."

And that's just Bobby's coach that's going to be upset with you.

Yeah, that's coaching the kids. If that's okay where you ref, so be it; but it wouldn't be okay any place I've reffed.
Coach: "Hey, Billy, what'd the ref say to #24 red?"
Billy: "He said he had 4 fouls and to play smart."

Coach: "That's three seconds!"
Official: "Coach, I can't have you officiating from the bench like that."
Coach: "Why not, you've been coaching from the court."

You can make that case. I've not had any problems with what I do. If anything, the coaches I deal with appreciate preventative officiating, and the players know I'm trying to help them. I guess it is all how you are perceived by the coaches and players. If your judgment or people skills are off, you are correct, you can get bit. I still think that this is the right approach. If you can learn to do it, game management and relationships with the players and coaches becomes very simple.

BTW, I'd never respond to a coach yelling 3 seconds.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

BTW, I'd never respond to a coach yelling 3 seconds.

Not the first time, anyway; but you just gonna ignore him if he's yelling it every time down the court?

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not the first time, anyway; but you just gonna ignore him if he's yelling it every time down the court?

Hate to say it, but this just doesn't happen in my games very often. However, if I worked at a level where an immature coach started with that, I cannot imagine that the quick "OK, I'll call it if they get an advantage", said nicely, would not stop it.