players with 4 fouls

[beachbum]

Many gyms do not post the players number and number of fouls on the score board as they occur. As a newer guy, i don't want to foul someone out on a cheep foul, but it is hard to know the foul situation for each team.
It doesn't seem appropriate to go to the scorekeeper and ask, "who has 4 fouls" at say the start of the 4th quarter. that might appear to everyone that you could be showing favoritism to those players.

How do you experienced guys get the information you want in that senario?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by beachbum

As a newer guy, I don't want to foul someone out on a cheap foul, but it is hard to know the foul situation for each team.
It doesn't seem appropriate to go to the scorekeeper and ask, "who has 4 fouls" at say the start of the 4th quarter. That might appear to everyone that you could be showing favoritism to those players.

You have just reopened Pandora's Box. Be prepared. Be very prepared.

[just another ref]

Is a "cheep foul" when a bird lands on a player, or what? Sorry, couldn't help myself. If you adjust your calling based on the number of fouls a player has, you are doing the game a big disservice.

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You have just reopened Pandora's Box. Be prepared. Be very prepared.

Break out the popcorn!

[summdawg76]

I am always ok with a good discussion that does not include personal insults. Besides, if we all agreed, there would be no need for this board.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by beachbum

Many gyms do not post the players number and number of fouls on the score board as they occur. As a newer guy, i don't want to foul someone out on a cheep foul, but it is hard to know the foul situation for each team.
It doesn't seem appropriate to go to the scorekeeper and ask, "who has 4 fouls" at say the start of the 4th quarter. that might appear to everyone that you could be showing favoritism to those players.

How do you experienced guys get the information you want in that senario?

A foul is a foul is a foul in minute one and minute 32. You and your crew must be consistent with your calls.

I personally check with the table for total foul counts 7/10 to be aware of the bonus at TO's/, etc. If the table volunteers who has foul troubles that's ok. But, generally, I know who is piling up the fouls.

Are you saying your ok giving "cheap fouls" up until a player has four and then you're gonna make sure five is a good one?

[beachbum]

I guess the word cheep is not right. I mean a questionable foul. but I think i get your drift..just call what you see and if someone fouls out, they foul out.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by beachbum

I guess the word cheep is not right. I mean a questionable foul. but I think i get your drift..just call what you see and if someone fouls out, they foul out.

Beachbum, I do want to know when a player has 4 fouls...not to change anything that I am calling, but so I/we are not surprised when the table tells us someone just fouled out. To me, it's the same as knowing when the 6th team foul is called, so we aren't surprised that we are shooting the bonus on the next foul. Some people think that wanting that information has no possible use other than changing the way you are calling - they are wrong. But that has been argued on here before.

[summdawg76]

I will be the black sheep.

I think you need to be aware about who has 4 fouls. If you fouled out the only kid that can dribble the ball for that team, trouble is soon behind. It better be one heck of a foul. Game management skills still have to carry some weight in the game.
I am not saying you ignore obvious advantage gains, but preventive officiating can make the game smother.

[26 Year Gap]

Just had a game yesterday where 4 players fouled out. With them gone, the game cleaned up a little bit.

[icallfouls]

One thing that could be said is have a patient whistle, see the end of every play before making a decision to put air on something. This will hopefully lead to calling obvious fouls and decrease the likelihood of the cheap foul. Part of my pregame is precisely: call the fouls that are obvious, dont guess, stay in our primarys (unless it is a non basketball play).

This usually assures that a player earns their fouls.

And by the way, a foul early is not always a foul late, as the game changes so does the call selection. I know that there are plenty here that will disagree, but it is a fact and for anyone here to say that they call it the same every play is .... I will withold my comment

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by summdawg76

I will be the black sheep.

I think you need to be aware about who has 4 fouls. If you fouled out the only kid that can dribble the ball for that team, trouble is soon behind. It better be one heck of a foul. Game management skills still have to carry some weight in the game.
I am not saying you ignore obvious advantage gains, but preventive officiating can make the game smother.

Gotta tell ya' - this is so wrong I hardly know where to start. First of all, we don't "foul anyone out". The players commit the fouls, we only point them out when they happen. If "the only player who can dribble the ball for a team" fouls out, why is that the official's concern? If he was so valuable to that team, he shouldn't have committed so many fouls. The responsibility is his, not ours. And saying it "better be one heck of a foul" is ridiculous. It "better meet" exactly the same standard you've used for every other foul you've called that game - no more and no less. This is not preventative officiating - it's poor officiating.

Don't mean to sound vindictive, but we've gone over having this attitude numerous times here.

[Kelvin green]

Game awareness does matter.

When I can look at a book (upside down) I can tell who has three fouls/four fouls.... Does it make a difference in the way I call a game not really but if I know a player has 4, I am more ready when the player gets the 5th.... especially if I know shirts will come out or other dumb things to prevent a T. or other issues on the floor....

[summdawg76]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Gotta tell ya' - this is so wrong I hardly know where to start. First of all, we don't "foul anyone out". The players commit the fouls, we only point them out when they happen. If "the only player who can dribble the ball for a team" fouls out, why is that the official's concern? If he was so valuable to that team, he shouldn't have committed so many fouls. The responsibility is his, not ours. And saying it "better be one heck of a foul" is ridiculous. It "better meet" exactly the same standard you've used for every other foul you've called that game - no more and no less. This is not preventative officiating - it's poor officiating.

Don't mean to sound vindictive, but we've gone over having this attitude numerous times here.

That is your opinion sir. You know what I was talking about. I was just stating how to use good game management skills. There is nothing poor about it. If you have a girls middle school game and their only dribbler is fouled out for some nit picking calls, your game will go to hell. '
You can say what you want, but a game is not much a game without some kind of rhythm or flow. So if you can use some preventive officiating by talking to players, the game flows smoother.
The same principle goes for the game "knucklehead." Every game has one and as soon as you can get rid of him/her, the game cleans up.

I am so sorry that your having to explain yourself again on this opinion, but I just have recently joined. I am enjoying the good conversations.

Merry Christmas

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by summdawg76

I will be the black sheep.

I think you need to be aware about who has 4 fouls. If you fouled out the only kid that can dribble the ball for that team, trouble is soon behind. It better be one heck of a foul. Game management skills still have to carry some weight in the game.
I am not saying you ignore obvious advantage gains, but preventive officiating can make the game smother.

Sorry, but that's pretty bad reasoning to determine if I'm calling the foul or not...If he's the only dribbler, well...the coach better get to work in practice!