players with 4 fouls

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by beachbum

Many gyms do not post the players number and number of fouls on the score board as they occur. As a newer guy, i don't want to foul someone out on a cheep foul, but it is hard to know the foul situation for each team.
It doesn't seem appropriate to go to the scorekeeper and ask, "who has 4 fouls" at say the start of the 4th quarter. that might appear to everyone that you could be showing favoritism to those players.

How do you experienced guys get the information you want in that senario?

BeachBum:

Not only is it inapporpriate it is absolutely WRONG to ever ask which players have four (4) fouls. Officials do NOT care who has four fouls PERIOD!!

MTD, Sr.


P.S.: BillyMac, this post was for your first post of the thread,

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

BeachBum:

Not only is it inapporpriate it is absolutely WRONG to ever ask which players have four (4) fouls. Officials do NOT care who has four fouls PERIOD!!

MTD, Sr.


P.S.: BillyMac, this post was for your first post of the thread,

I disagree entirely...this is the attitude I was talking about in my earlier post. There are officials who want to know who has 4 fouls - and for very legitimate reasons. The knee-jerk reaction of some people to automatically think it is wrong to want to know as much information as possible is disturbing at best, and ridiculous at worst.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I disagree entirely...this is the attitude I was talking about in my earlier post. There are officials who want to know who has 4 fouls - and for very legitimate reasons. The knee-jerk reaction of some people to automatically think it is wrong to want to know as much information as possible is disturbing at best, and ridiculous at worst.

RockyRoad:

Knowing the team foul totals is a legitimate piece of information that I want to know but I do not need to now who has four fouls and neither does anyother official. When does a player tend to commit his fifth foul? The fourth quarter. So unless I have a player who has been a real hacker, I am going to be cognizant of the fact that when I report a foul that it could be the player's fifth foul. I just do not report the foul and immediately turn away from the table. I take the same attitude late in the second and fourth quarters if we have not yet reached the bonus situation. This is called dead ball management: don't rush but take care of business.

MTD, Sr.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

RockyRoad:

This is called dead ball management: don't rush but take care of business.

MTD, Sr.

Deadball management...I'd rather have game awareness and know prior to the player committing their 5th foul that they have just picked up #4. It is just like knowing that a team has picked up their 6th team foul and the next one will result in Bonus FT's.

By your logic you don't want to know that until it happens. Rocky is talking about being proactive rather than reactive

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Deadball management...I'd rather have game awareness and know prior to the player committing their 5th foul that they have just picked up #4. It is just like knowing that a team has picked up their 6th team foul and the next one will result in Bonus FT's.

By your logic you don't want to know that until it happens. Rocky is talking about being proactive rather than reactive

icallfouls:

I do want to know when a team has six team fouls, but as officials we really do not need to know who has four fouls. It is not germane to game awareness or game management, but can lead to game manipulation.

Knowing how many team fouls each team has is good game management and is good game awareness because it helps prevent correctable errors from happening. But that last thing an official needs is people quesitioning why he wants to know who has four fouls and hell, while he is at it who has three fouls for that matter, just think Tim Donaghy.

And dead ball management is very important. When the ball is live it means we are playing basketball, when the ball is dead the game is not being played and 99.99% of the time nothing good ever happens during a dead ball time period and that is why dead ball management is very important to game management AND game awareness is an important part of dead ball management.

With regard to dead ball management, I would like to recommend trying to find a video of Fred Horgan (past President of IAABO and currently representing Canada on the FIBA Technical Board; Padgett, no FEEBLE joke this time) giving his presentation on dead ball management. It is must see for all basketball officials whether one officiates, NFHS, NCAA, NBA/WNBA, or FIBA. Hopefully one of our Canadian members can point us in the direction of a video of one of his presentations on the web.

MTD, Sr.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

RockyRoad:

Knowing the team foul totals is a legitimate piece of information that I want to know but I do not need to now who has four fouls and neither does anyother official. When does a player tend to commit his fifth foul? The fourth quarter. So unless I have a player who has been a real hacker, I am going to be cognizant of the fact that when I report a foul that it could be the player's fifth foul. I just do not report the foul and immediately turn away from the table. I take the same attitude late in the second and fourth quarters if we have not yet reached the bonus situation. This is called dead ball management: don't rush but take care of business.

MTD, Sr.

Thank you for being so concerned with saving me from myself. While we're at it, are there any other pieces of highly flammable information that I ought not to know? You know, for the greater good.

Really? If you haven't reached the bonus, you'll still hang out at the table waiting for them to tell you ... what, that you haven't reached the bonus? Or are you saying that you don't know whether or not you've reached the bonus, and therefore wait at the table for them to tell you? If so, I wish you well finding your shooter. Or do you expect your partner to get your shooter for you? Assuming he's not so dependent on dead ball management to get his information on a need to know basis.