The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 08, 2008, 03:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
Is the reason that this is not a correctable error because only one player went after the rebound?

What if the OP said that both A2 and B2 went for the rebound and B2 got it and scored and a)one official blew his whistle because two shots had been awarded or b)no official blows the whistle to stop play until the desk signals that there is a problem prior to B putting the ball in play?
Read the case play and you may better understand it.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 08, 2008, 06:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Read the case play and you may better understand it.
I read it which sparked the question/confusion.

I also read 2.10.1 B.

Does 8.6.1 deal with an immediate known error while 2.10.1 deals with an error that is not immediately discovered?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 08, 2008, 06:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
8.6.1 deals with an official's mistake.

2.10.1b deals with a correctable error of not awarding a merited FT.

The original post is not a correctable error because a unmerited FT was not awarded, as the second FT was never shot. The officlal gave the wrong info to both teams. To allow A2 to keep the ball because he rebounded it would unfair to B. Further, allowing A to keep the basket, which is what NVRef suggested, would be even more unfair.

Nothing in 2-10 or 2.10 has anything to do with this play. It's a completely different sitch from a rule standpoint.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith

Last edited by BktBallRef; Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 07:08pm.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 09, 2008, 01:22am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
8.6.1 deals with an official's mistake.

2.10.1b deals with a correctable error of not awarding a merited FT.

The original post is not a correctable error because a unmerited FT was not awarded, as the second FT was never shot. The officlal gave the wrong info to both teams. To allow A2 to keep the ball because he rebounded it would unfair to B. Further, allowing A to keep the basket, which is what NVRef suggested, would be even more unfair.

Nothing in 2-10 or 2.10 has anything to do with this play. It's a completely different sitch from a rule standpoint.
I never said that it was fair, Tony. I just said that BY RULE the player has scored a legal goal, and that there is no rules support for cancelling that.

This is similar to the discussion that we had last year about the FT shooter losing the ball and then stepping into the lane to chase after it BEFORE an official sounded a whistle. Even you said that was a violation on the shooter BY RULE. Here is a link to that thread:

Free Throw Violation

Of course, that debate is now moot due to the new part b of 9.1.1.

PS Please note that I did not suggest that Team A be allowed to keep the basket.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 09, 2008, 07:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I never said that it was fair.
Let me see...no,....nothing there....no......nope. Nowhere did I say that you said it was fair. I simply made my own observation.


Quote:
I just said that BY RULE the player has scored a legal goal, and that there is no rules support for cancelling that.
No, he has not scored a legal goal. The ball is dead when he rebounds it. It makes no difference whether he shoots it, double dribbles it, or throws it OOB. The case play is clear, at least to most eveyone else. There's nothing magical about shooting a dead ball.

Quote:
This is similar toh the discussion that we had last year about the FT shooter losing the ball and then stepping into the lane to chase after it BEFORE an official sounded a whistle. Even you said that was a violation on the shooter BY RULE. Here is a link to that thread:

Free Throw Violation
Wrong again, Tutts. This is a live ball situation. The whistle is required to kill the play.

The OP is a dead ball sitaution.

Of course, that debate is now moot due to the new part b of 9.1.1.

Quote:
PS Please note that I did not suggest that Team A be allowed to keep the basket.
You didn't?

Then, what does this suggest?

"Without that happening, I don't see how the basket can be cancelled."

Make up your mind.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith

Last edited by BktBallRef; Thu Oct 09, 2008 at 09:12am.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 09, 2008, 06:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
No, he has not scored a legal goal. The ball is dead when he rebounds it.
Really??? What makes it dead?--The official incorrectly saying two shots? I don't think so. It was supposed to be 1-and-1 and the ball was properly made live during the FT and remains live on the miss. I disagree 100% with your assertion that the ball is dead at this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
The case play is clear, at least to most eveyone else. There's nothing magical about shooting a dead ball.
Yep, the case play definitely is clear, "Play should be whistled dead immediately..." The ball clearly isn't already dead. It needs to be whistled dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Then, what does this suggest?

"Without that happening, I don't see how the basket can be cancelled."
I was simply...



and you...





This play is analogous to our previous discussion of that FT violation and my position is exactly the same as it was in there. BY RULE this is a legal goal and there is nothing in the book that permits the official to cancel the score after it has happened. However, a good official will bend the rules in this situation.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 09, 2008, 10:37pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Really??? What makes it dead?--The official incorrectly saying two shots? I don't think so. It was supposed to be 1-and-1 and the ball was properly made live during the FT and remains live on the miss. I disagree 100% with your assertion that the ball is dead at this time.

6-7-2a:

The ball becomes dead when it is apparent the free throw will not be successful on a free throw which is to be followed by another free throw.



If the official says there will be another free throw, right or wrong, there will be another free throw until the official says otherwise.

We have had this conversation before.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Official mistake on free throw oldschool Basketball 4 Sat Jan 05, 2008 06:09am
AP Mistake jdw3018 Basketball 3 Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:20am
Official scorer mistake just another ref Baseball 18 Wed May 26, 2004 10:55am
Another ASA mistake? greymule Softball 6 Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:07pm
High School Official vs NCAA /College Official CLAY Basketball 22 Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:29pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:07pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1