Official scorer mistake

[just another ref]

In our 13-14 year old boys league the home team must furnish the keeper of the official book for the evening. This is to say the least a problem at times. Probably 1 out of 5 that keep the book really knows how, and probably at least 1 out of 5 has no clue, but somebody's gotta do it so........ to make a long story short we were credited with 2 runs more than we had, which pushed us to a 10 run
(mercy rule) victory after 4 1/2 innings. A few minutes later the visitor's scorekeeper pointed out the mistake.
(what took her so long to speak up?) We discussed possibilities for a little while, (several players had left)
and the visitor's coaches basically said, "Forget it. Our butts are kicked. Let's go home."

What is the rule in this case? Dixie Boys baseball player under Official Baseball Rules.

[LDUB]

All you got to do is ask the umpire for what score he has in his wallet... Oops, don't want to get into that.

[sir_eldren]

Well, as long as the umpire has not left the confines of the field, he can make a ruling as to what the score actually is. If he left, then it's up to the league to take care of the situation.

If the umpire decides that the home book is right and won't confer with anybody, then it stands (and once again becomes a league problem). If he acknowledges the mistake the game will (should. . .) continue. If players already left and can't be called back, that's too bad for their team--that could result in a game being over on that alone.

But it sounds to me like the visiting coach actually forfeited, if what you say is true. LOL!

-Craig

[GarthB]

Dixie Boys baseball player under Official Baseball Rules.

Nothing malcious intended, but I've been dying to ask this whenever I see the above reference:

1. Do you play less than nine innings?
2. Do you use a courtesy runner at any time?
3. Do you play on basepaths less than 90' in length?
4. Do you allow any form of re-entry?
5. Do you have a slide, avoid or surrender rule?
6. Do you have a malicious contact rule?
7. Do you pitch from less than 60'6"?
8. Do you have time limits in any game, including tournaments?
9. Do you restrict the number of innings a pitcher can pitch in a game or week?
10. Do you have a prohibition, at any age level, to "leaving early"?
11. Do you allow an Extra Hitter?
12. Did you answer yes to any of these questions?
13. Is a yes answer to any of these questions consistent with the Official Rules of Baseball?

The rules of baseball were written for 30 year old men, not 11 year old boys.

Youth leagues have added, deleted, modified and at times have outright re-written the rules. Some youth leagues have changed the obstruction rule and one even invented a rule in which a runner just plain disappears. (He's not out, he didn't score, he's just gone.)

I'm not criticizing leagues for adding safety or increased participation rules. It's just that I'm always amazed at the put-down FED gets for it's rules by some youth umpires who think they work the "real" rules.

[DG]

Originally posted by just another ref
In our 13-14 year old boys league the home team must furnish the keeper of the official book for the evening. This is to say the least a problem at times. Probably 1 out of 5 that keep the book really knows how, and probably at least 1 out of 5 has no clue, but somebody's gotta do it so........ to make a long story short we were credited with 2 runs more than we had, which pushed us to a 10 run
(mercy rule) victory after 4 1/2 innings. A few minutes later the visitor's scorekeeper pointed out the mistake.
(what took her so long to speak up?) We discussed possibilities for a little while, (several players had left)
and the visitor's coaches basically said, "Forget it. Our butts are kicked. Let's go home."

What is the rule in this case? Dixie Boys baseball player under Official Baseball Rules.

In only "a few minutes", "several players had left"? Sounds a little mysterious. If the visiting coach is willing to accept the erroneous score that ended the game, then it's official, IMO, especially if he still has 9 players to continue play with.

[LDUB]

Talking about rules, a couple of weeks ago, umpiring a game. This league says the play under Pony Rules and IHSA rules (FED). That was fun, playing under modified OBR and FED at same time.

I agree with Garth. I would much rather call a FED game, than one of these so called OBR leagues. Some of these leagues bat all the players and allow free subutition. Even though FED has reentry and safety rules, it is alot closer to real baseball than many of these youth leagues.

[just another ref]

A lot of good points made here, but I hear no direct answer to the main question. In basketball rules, there are references everywhere you look about errors, officiating errors, scorer's error, timekeeper errors, and when these errors are correctable and how to do so. Apparently baseball has no direct reference to this matter?
e.g. Rule xx states: When it is discovered that the official score is incorrect after the umpire has yelled "Ball Game!" it is too damn late.
The day in question was indeed a comedy of errors. The confusion was much greater because our scoreboard was on the blink. Then we send 13 men to the plate in the second inning so it was a bit overwhelming for this lady who has probably kept a book 8 times in her entire life.

[just another ref]

Originally posted by GarthB
Dixie Boys baseball player under Official Baseball Rules.


Youth leagues have added, deleted, modified and at times have outright re-written the rules. Some youth leagues have changed the obstruction rule and one even invented a rule in which a runner just plain disappears. (He's not out, he didn't score, he's just gone.)

Could you elaborate on this?

[GarthB]

Originally posted by just another ref

Could you elaborate on this?

It is a Little League rule, 7.13, I believe. It is part of the their rule against "leaving early."

Basically, if bases are loaded and a runner leaves early when a ball is bunted or hit in teh infield for a single, the runner at third evaporates, disappears. (the “POOF!” rule”): He is not allowed to score and he is not counted as being out. He's just gone.

[Edited by GarthB on May 24th, 2004 at 03:28 AM]

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by just another ref
In our 13-14 year old boys league the home team must furnish the keeper of the official book for the evening. This is to say the least a problem at times. Probably 1 out of 5 that keep the book really knows how, and probably at least 1 out of 5 has no clue, but somebody's gotta do it so........ to make a long story short we were credited with 2 runs more than we had, which pushed us to a 10 run
(mercy rule) victory after 4 1/2 innings. A few minutes later the visitor's scorekeeper pointed out the mistake.
(what took her so long to speak up?) We discussed possibilities for a little while, (several players had left)
and the visitor's coaches basically said, "Forget it. Our butts are kicked. Let's go home."

Remember when kiddie ball umpires where belittled for keeping track of the score. The big dogs insisted that this was unnecessary!

[Striker991]

At the beginning of the inning that completes the legal requirement for a game (4 or 5 innings) I check with the official book for the score. When I realize a 10 run rule has been completed, I call "Time!" I then ask the official scorekeeper again what the score is. I then ask the visiting book what their score is. If they don't match, I have them meet and review. Then, if it is a 10 run rule, I call the game. If not, we keep playing.

[DG]

Originally posted by GarthB

It is a Little League rule, 7.13, I believe. It is part of the their rule against "leaving early."

Basically, if bases are loaded and a runner leaves early when a ball is bunted or hit in teh infield for a single, the runner at third evaporates, disappears. (the “POOF!” rule”): He is not allowed to score and he is not counted as being out. He's just gone.

[Edited by GarthB on May 24th, 2004 at 03:28 AM]

Same rule in Babe Ruth baseball, Cal Ripken league.

[David B]

Originally posted by GarthB
Dixie Boys baseball player under Official Baseball Rules.

Dixie plays under OBR, but they have their own rule book which supercedes the OBR.

And its quite extensive.

As far as scorekeepers etc., that's all local rules, there's nothing in the rule books about any such things.

They assume an official scorekeeper in their rule books.

And they don't ask the umpires to keep score (g)

Thanks
David

[just another ref]

Originally posted by David B

Dixie plays under OBR, but they have their own rule book which supercedes the OBR.

And its quite extensive.

As far as scorekeepers etc., that's all local rules, there's nothing in the rule books about any such things.

They assume an official scorekeeper in their rule books.

And they don't ask the umpires to keep score (g)

Thanks
David

Tonight, our scoreboard was still not working, so the umpire went around to all 3 books at the end of each 1/2 inning to verify that they had the same score.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by DG

Same rule in Babe Ruth baseball, Cal Ripken league.

Sorry to hear that.