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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 12:13pm
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Free throw administration

Situation:

B1 drives to the basket and is fouled in the act of shooting by A1. Basket is no good. A coach reacts to call and is awarded a technical foul. Referee makes both shooting foul and technical foul calls and reports to table.

While R is reporting U1 (two whistle game) administers free-throws. He incorrectly awards technical free-throws first. B2 makes the first and misses the second. Mistake is realized by R. After conferencing, both officials conclude that they will re-shoot free throws starting with the common foul and than technical, erasing the scored points by B2.

Is this correct?
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 12:20pm
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Not trying to be an appendage here, but is your opinion? Do you think that an error was/wasn't made?
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 12:24pm
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I'm not really sure. it seems logical, but the idea of erasing scored points doesn't sit right with me.
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 12:30pm
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Call me Eliza

There's probably a reason that it doesn't sit well with you. What is that reason?
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 12:32pm
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it doesn't seem correct
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 12:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jburt View Post
it doesn't seem correct [to remove points]
Is there any harm in player shooting fouls shots out of order?

Is there any harm if a wrong player shoots a free throw?
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 01:27pm
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Jburt -

re-read the list of correctable errors to see if your situation is covered; then you'll have your answer
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 01:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdray View Post
Jburt -

re-read the list of correctable errors to see if your situation is covered; then you'll have your answer
LOL that was my next suggestion.
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 03:44pm
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Since we are on the topic of free throw administration, had this happen Mon night. 8th grade boys game. A1 at the line to shoot the first of two shots (foul on B1 while in the act of shooting, unsuccessful). After A1 releases the shot, B2 clearly steps into the lane before the shot reaches the vicinity of the basket. I say "vicinity" because the shot doesn't draw iron.

I'm lead and give the lane violation sign, then trail (2-man crew of course) blows the whistle on the no-rim. We consulted and my partner thought that because B1 violated first, we should re-shoot the shot. I thought that since it was a double violation, we wipe off that shot and just shoot the 2nd one.

Who is right? By the way, since my partner was the senior official, we went with his call and sold the coaches that way with no arguments.
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 03:51pm
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We discussed this one at length in the past year, I believe. Shooting the free throws "out of order" is not a correctable error. All merited free throws were shot. Presumably they were all shot by the proper players, and at the correct basket. Those would be correctable errors. Simply fouling up and shooting them in the wrong order is not a CE. And as long as the offended team receives their throw-in after it's all done, then all salient points of the penalty have been fulfilled.

Play on. Don't foul it up next time.
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 03:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz View Post
Since we are on the topic of free throw administration, had this happen Mon night. 8th grade boys game. A1 at the line to shoot the first of two shots (foul on B1 while in the act of shooting, unsuccessful). After A1 releases the shot, B2 clearly steps into the lane before the shot reaches the vicinity of the basket. I say "vicinity" because the shot doesn't draw iron.

I'm lead and give the lane violation sign, then trail (2-man crew of course) blows the whistle on the no-rim. We consulted and my partner thought that because B1 violated first, we should re-shoot the shot. I thought that since it was a double violation, we wipe off that shot and just shoot the 2nd one.

Who is right? By the way, since my partner was the senior official, we went with his call and sold the coaches that way with no arguments.
You're right. It's actually a simultaneous violation though, not double. You just shoot the second shot. If this happens on the second free throw, you do an AP throw-in on the end line.
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 07:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle View Post
We discussed this one at length in the past year, I believe. Shooting the free throws "out of order" is not a correctable error. All merited free throws were shot. Presumably they were all shot by the proper players, and at the correct basket. Those would be correctable errors. Simply fouling up and shooting them in the wrong order is not a CE. And as long as the offended team receives their throw-in after it's all done, then all salient points of the penalty have been fulfilled.

Play on. Don't foul it up next time.
Yep, straight from the Case Book:
MISTAKE IN ADMINISTRATION SEQUENCE
8.7 SITUATION B: B1 fouls A1 just as the first quarter ends and then A1 retaliates and intentionally contacts B1. A1ís foul is a technical foul as it occurred during a dead ball. Team A is in the bonus. The officials by mistake administer the penalty for the technical foul before the free throw(s) by A1. RULING: The penalties should have been administered in the order in which the fouls occurred. However, since all merited free throws were attempted it does not constitute a correctable error situation. The second quarter will begin with an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-19-5c)
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 08:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle View Post
We discussed this one at length in the past year, I believe. Shooting the free throws "out of order" is not a correctable error. All merited free throws were shot. Presumably they were all shot by the proper players, and at the correct basket.
This is absolutely correct for NFHS. Wasn't there an NCAA interp about this a couple seasons ago? I seem to remember that it was different in NCAA.
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 08:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
You're right. It's actually a simultaneous violation though, not double. You just shoot the second shot. If this happens on the second free throw, you do an AP throw-in on the end line.
Unless there was disconcertion (doesn't sound like it from the OP, though).
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 10:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Unless there was disconcertion (doesn't sound like it from the OP, though).
You're right. I didn't mention that.

I did think of this though: If Team B violates and Team A shoots a no-rimmer on the first of two shots, is it a simultaneous violation? B does violate, but is it even a violation on A since it's the first of two free throws? Wouldn't you call a violation on B and re-shoot the first free throw?

Last edited by zm1283; Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:10pm.
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