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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 01, 2000, 01:14am
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Actually, Bob was right: Assuming this was not following a time-out, where the resumption of play procedure is in effect, the players are simply directed to fill the spots. If they don't, a T is assessed. No team warning in that situation. (see Case Book, 10.1.5C.b) But, I also wondered in my first post if there was a typo or something, since as Barney said, if Team B is shooting then they don't have to be lined up on the lane. I assumed it was an "oops" in how it was written.
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Old Tue Feb 01, 2000, 01:40am
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Let me add to my response, if as the original post stated, the team was huddled at the coach, ' a team warning is required' per rule 10, sec. 1, art. 5-d.
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Old Tue Feb 01, 2000, 05:54am
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Watched a very competitive jv boys game last night, called very well by a 2nd year and a 4th year official. A foul was called on team A, 2 shots. Coach of team B calls all of his players to his bench, at end away from shooting, during the first free throw, in his mind he's saving a timeout. After first free throw he sends his players back out to line up properly along the lane for the second shot. Officials administered both shots as if nothing was out of the ordinary.

After the game I went to the officials' room. I asked them about this situation and why they handled it the way they did. They were pretty much at a loss. I got out my rule book and turned to rule 8-3 which says that the first lane space SHALL be occupied by team B. Forgetting about preventive officiating for a minute, and the fact that the trail official should have ensured that those spaces were filled before letting lead administer the first shot, what is the penalty for not filling those spaces? Is it a lane violation and thus a replacement shot awarded if the shot is missed? Is it a delay of game? I can't find answer in rule book or case book, help.

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Old Tue Feb 01, 2000, 06:59am
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Rule 8, Art 1 describes the free throw administration and procedure for violating by either team. The first free-throw should be administered and delayed violation signal should be used. If the throw is no good, give them another. Further delays by that team will be a technical foul 8,1.c..
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Old Tue Feb 01, 2000, 09:52am
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quote:
Originally posted by J Morrow on 02-01-2000 04:54 AM
Watched a very competitive jv boys game last night, called very well by a 2nd year and a 4th year official. A foul was called on team A, 2 shots. Coach of team B calls all of his players to his bench, at end away from shooting, during the first free throw, in his mind he's saving a timeout


Did I miss something here, or did you mean that the coach of team A brought his players over, thus not filling the bottom spot on the lane? As you wrote the post, you said a foul was called on team A. Therefore, team B is shooting and team A must fill the bottom spots. Those are the only two spots that MUST be filled; all others may remain empty. So, if B was shooting and two players from A were in the bottom spots, the JV refs handled it just right. If A was actually shooting and B was supposed to be on the bottom spot, then Joe's interpretation and ruling is correct (I think--I couldn't find the actual procedure in the book that says issue a T if they continue to fail to fill the bottom spot, but I still think that is correct).

[This message has been edited by Todd VandenAkker (edited February 01, 2000).]
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Old Tue Feb 01, 2000, 09:59am
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quote:
Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker on 02-01-2000 08:52 AM
If A was actually shooting and B was supposed to be on the bottom spot, then Joe's interpretation and ruling is correct (I think--I couldn't find the actual procedure in the book that says issue a T if they continue to fail to fill the bottom spot, but I still think that is correct).



Oh, there it is: Case Book, situation 10.1.5A. As I thought, Joe was correct about the T for delay of game the second time a team doesn't fill the bottom spots.
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Old Tue Feb 01, 2000, 10:12am
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quote:
Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker on 02-01-2000 08:59 AM
Oh, there it is: Case Book, situation 10.1.5A. As I thought, Joe was correct about the T for delay of game the second time a team doesn't fill the bottom spots.


That case is for the "resuming of play" process -- after a TO.

Since this wasn't after a TO, the correct reference is 10.1.5C(b). Instruct B to occupy the lower two spots. Give them an immediate T if they don't. Now the coach will have plenty of time to talk to his players.


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Old Tue Feb 01, 2000, 10:25am
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Thanks Joe Bob and Todd. Both of your answers related to a situation where a timeout exists. In my case there was no timeout involved. Neither 8-1 nor case book 10-1-5A apply in my situation. However, Todd, thanks for directing me to 10-1 in case book. I believe 10-1-5C-b partially answers my problem. I guess I won't get a good answer, per the book, since apparently the officials have to DIRECT team A (in my post) to occupy the end spaces before the delay of game technical comes into play. Anybody find anything else that relates?
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Old Tue Feb 01, 2000, 10:27am
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Thanks Bob. Your posting was not on my screen when I typed my latest posting. I guess great mind ...
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 01, 2000, 10:55am
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quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins on 02-01-2000 09:12 AM
That case is for the "resuming of play" process -- after a TO.

Since this wasn't after a TO, the correct reference is 10.1.5C(b).


Oops! You're right, of course. Good catch. :-)
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 01, 2000, 12:41pm
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Per the original post, Who's shooting???

If team 'B' is shooting, they do not have to be along the lane.

If team 'A' is shooting, then yes team 'B' is supposed to have at least the two lower positions filled. Proper procedure, issue a team warning for the delay, record it in the book, if the team still delays, issue the 'T'.
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Old Tue Feb 01, 2000, 08:33pm
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You lost me Barney. I can't figure out how 10-1-5d relates to this situation at all. This rule is regarding a player on Team A messing with the ball after his team has scored, thus preventing Team B from promptly inbounding the ball. If there was a typo in your posting and it should have read 10-1-5b, then that, as well as 7-5-1 and 8-1-1, apply to resuming play after a timeout or intermission. Please clarify why 10-1-5 d or d apply here. Thanks.
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Old Wed Feb 02, 2000, 01:49am
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Barney,

The team warning only applies if the huddle delays the administration of the free throw.

Go the area of the team huddle and tell the coach that the two lane spaces closest to the endline must be filled by his team. If by the time the official returns to administer the free throw the team has not complied, present them with a 'T'. Casebook 10.1.5B and 10.1.5Cb.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2000, 10:46am
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My bad guys, should have been rule 10,sect. 1, art. 5-c...

To: b_silliman
Per your quote; The team warning only applies if the huddle delays the administration of the free throw.

Hello!! Isn't that what's happening???
per the rule mentioned above, team warning required.
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Old Wed Feb 02, 2000, 11:21am
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quote:
[b] Hello!! Isn't that what's happening???
per the rule mentioned above, team warning required.


The "huddle" rule refers to players in the key, when everyone is otherwise ready to go. After a warning (duly recorded by the scorer), a delay of game T can (though not necessarily SHOULD) be called. However, the huddle by the coach is a different situation, because players are not lined up on the bottom spots as required. That situation is handled differently--directed to fill the spots, or suffer a T. It's not a "delay" situation.
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