Celtics offensive foul call

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

Best of all you can pull a Mark Padgett and when a coach asks about a call that he thinks is a NFHS rule but is really NBA you have the witty comeback...

WOW! I've become an icon! I knew I was a legend in my own mind, but this!!!

BTW - according to one train of thought in this thread, I should be most familiar with driveway rules.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

Let me answer you without being the least bit condescending, like you have been with me ever since I started posting here.

What part of "congratulations on reaching your goals" did you fail to comprehend? I wrote that and I meant it.

For some reason, you seem to take it personally when someone knocks the NBA. Well, you'd better get used to it because I'm hardly alone in that regard. You also seem to have missed the fact that I don't knock NBA officials per se either, as others do. I think that NBA officials do a great job considering the handicap that I believe they're being forced to work under. That handicap is having to work for a league that has become far more entertainment-oriented than game-oriented. The problem imo is the criteria that NBA officials are being forced to meet. And imo, part of that criteria is having to officiate a game without being able to apply certain rules evenly and consistently- rules such as traveling, palming, and ,yes, how fouls are called. The direction being given to the officials lies with the NBA and the problems are the NBA's doing, and it is too damn bad that the officials are constantly taking crap for something that really isn't their fault imo.

My opinion, Ben, like it or not....and it has nothing to do with you personally in any way.

Good luck with your officiating career. I hope that you reach all of your goals, and I really mean that. Don't think for a minute though that I'll stop showing my disdain for the current edition of the NBA. Imo, it has strayed too far from the game of "basketball" and has become unwatchable. And that is NOT a knock on the people officiating the games.

Fwiw I think that the NHL is also having similar problems. I used to love watching hockey. No more.

Hopefully, that'll set the record straight on where I'm coming from.

PS: Let me also apologize to Scrappy for briefly ignoring his directive to take a hike. I'll resume that journey, as ordered.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) I was well aware of that. I am also aware that most of these Pro-Am leagues are mainly glorified rec leagues. I am also aware of the NBA Junior programs also that use NBA rules.

You are wrong on many levels, but I do not want to continue debating this with you. Considering who is actually playing games shows that you have to be a little better than what is usually in a rec league.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

2) You missed my point completely. My point is that if an official is MAINLY working at the high school level, or maybe even doing a few D3/JUCO games, shouldn't that official spend the greater part of their time learning the rules, mechanics and philosophies of the level that they usually work in? Obviously, if btaylor is mainly or solely doing minor pro, NBDL or WNBA games, my post isn't germane or relevant. I was under the impression though, maybe wrongly, that Mr. Taylor is a young official with only a few years experience who is just breaking into high school varsity ball and also maybe doing some lower-level college stuff. If I am wrong in my assumption, I will certainly admit such.

The problem is the system to get in the NBA does not hire people because they have worked a State Final in high school. I can also tell you I know of no college supervisors that hire officials because they are accomplished high school officials as well. Actually most big time college officials or even new college officials at the D1 level in many cases could not get varsity games or playoffs at the high school level. I really do not see your connection as to why you must know lower level rules before getting to know NBA or NCAA Rules.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

My point was, and is, that imo an official should concentrate on learning the rules, mechanics and philosophies of the levels that they usually work in before spending a lot of time on another ruleset. I sureashell could be wrong, and it sureashell won't be the first time either, but it seems to me from his previous posts that Mr. Taylor knows a heckuva lot more about NBA rules than he does about NFHS/NCAA rules. If he is working mainly games played under NBA rules, then kudos to him. However, if he is working mainly games played under high school and college rules, then it might be a good idea for him imo to concentrate on the rulesets that he actually works.

Once again I disagree. Many of the college and pro rules and mechanics have filtered down to the high school level. If you know other levels I feel it helps you a lot with the level you work. What better way in my opinion to really understand 2 Person when you understand what 3 Person is all about?

Peace

[Scrapper1]

And the last six posts are why I asked you to take that discussion to another thread. So much for talking about the play.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

And the last six posts are why I asked you to take that discussion to another thread. So much for talking about the play.

Know what? You just convinced me NOT to take a hike.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You just convinced me NOT to take a hike.

That's ok. I will.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What part of "congratulations on reaching your goals" did you fail to comprehend? I wrote that and I meant it.

For some reason, you seem to take it personally when someone knocks the NBA. Well, you'd better get used to it because I'm hardly alone in that regard. You also seem to have missed the fact that I don't knock NBA officials per se either, as others do. I think that NBA officials do a great job considering the handicap that I believe they're being forced to work under. That handicap is having to work for a league that has become far more entertainment-oriented than game-oriented. The problem imo is the criteria that NBA officials are being forced to meet. And imo, part of that criteria is having to officiate a game without being able to apply certain rules evenly and consistently- rules such as traveling, palming, and ,yes, how fouls are called. The direction being given to the officials lies with the NBA and the problems are the NBA's doing, and it is too damn bad that the officials are constantly taking crap for something that really isn't their fault imo.

My opinion, Ben, like it or not....and it has nothing to do with you personally in any way.

Good luck with your officiating career. I hope that you reach all of your goals, and I really mean that. Don't think for a minute though that I'll stop showing my disdain for the current edition of the NBA. Imo, it has strayed too far from the game of "basketball" and has become unwatchable. And that is NOT a knock on the people officiating the games.

Fwiw I think that the NHL is also having similar problems. I used to love watching hockey. No more.

Hopefully, that'll set the record straight on where I'm coming from.

PS: Let me also apologize to Scrappy for briefly ignoring his directive to take a hike. I'll resume that journey, as ordered.

Well thanks. I just don't believe what you said about refs not being allowed to call plays consistently I just feel you are not watching enough NBA ball. I have, sitting in my house right now, web clips on DVD of at least 30 plays involving palming and traveling violations. I don't referee traveling any different in my pro games as I do my college games.

As for the play that scrapper is talking about:

I don't know what more we can say, I know that I explained that the play in question is to be deemed an offensive foul and Bennett called it as such. I can see where some people would no call this, but I cannot see where someone would call it a defensive foul....

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

And the last six posts are why I asked you to take that discussion to another thread. So much for talking about the play.

Maybe you can take this annoying whining to another thread?

We already have 2 topics open under this thread and you are contributing to neither.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I just don't believe what you said about refs not being allowed to call plays consistently I just feel you are not watching enough NBA ball. I have, sitting in my house right now, web clips on DVD of at least 30 plays involving palming and traveling violations. I don't referee traveling any different in my pro games as I do my college games.

As for the play that scrapper is talking about:

I don't know what more we can say, I know that I explained that the play in question is to be deemed an offensive foul and Bennett called it as such. I can see where some people would no call this, but I cannot see where someone would call it a defensive foul....

You're quite right when you say that I don't watch NBA games, but that's simply because I really don't personally enjoy the type of game currently being played.

It's really not about the stuff that does get called either, Ben. It's the stuff that goes uncalled that's looks to me like it's exactly the same as the actual calls being made. I say that realizing that all officials blow calls; I also say that believing that the guys doing the League with all of their specialized training should be expected to blow a helluva lot fewer calls than officials doing a lower level. It's the consistency that bothers me, and knowing the 24-hour nitpicking and second-guessing that an NBA ref has to endure, I just gotta believe personally that there are other factors coming into play. Factors that I sureasheck don't know about because I don't know what NBA play-calling philosophies are these days.No matter what, everybody has their own opinion anyway.

Fwiw, I agree with you and the others that agreed with you that the only possible foul calls on the Pierce play should be a (cheap imo) offensive foul or a no-call. However, I also think that he traveled into the contact. He took a full step sideways after his pivot was set and traveling was the correct call by rule. And that's one of the things that baffles me personally about the NBA. The shuffles and little steps to square-up or get behind the 3-point line seem to be ignored.

[Adam]

I'm starting to think this fascination with Chuck Elias is a bit unhealthy; especially in threads he doesn't read.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm starting to think this fascination with Chuck Elias is a bit unhealthy; especially in threads he doesn't read.

I cannot argue with this logic.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm starting to think this fascination with Chuck Elias is a bit unhealthy; especially in threads he doesn't read.

ChuckElias came out of hiding for a short time, literally, on two different levels, especially the shorter level, earlier this week, putting his life, and that of his family, at great risk, to contribute to this Forum. As far as I know, he's now back, safely tucked away, in the Federal Witness Protection Program.

I'm sure that we'll hear from him again on February 2.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

ChuckElias came out of hiding for a short time, literally, on two different levels, especially the shorter level, earlier this week, putting his life, and that of his family, at great risk, to contribute to this Forum. As far as I know, he's now back, safely tucked away, in the Federal Witness Protection Program.

I'm sure that we'll hear from him again on February 2.

In light of the fact that we're talking about Chuck, I think it's more accurate (appropo?) to call it "Squirrel Day" instead of "Groundhog Day."
Furthermore, rather than February 2, he appears ever year around March 25th to start a thread.

Every now and again, cabin fever sets in and the little fella pops his head into another thread. However, those sitings are rare and, I suspect, merely apocryphal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

In light of the fact that we're talking about Chuck, I think it's more accurate (appropo?) to call it "Squirrel Day" instead of "Groundhog Day".

Squirrel Appreciation Day
When : Always January 21st

Squirrel Appreciation Day is an opportunity to enjoy and appreciate your tree climbing, nut gathering neighborhood squirrels. It's held in mid-winter when food sources are scarce for squirrels and other wildlife. Sure, squirrels spent all fall gathering and "squirreling " away food. But, their supplies may not be enough. And, the variety of food is limited. So, give them an extra special treat today to supplement their winter diets.

When you think about it, mid winter is the best time to appreciate squirrels. In the winter they provide a little entertainment. During other times of the year, you may look at them as a pest in the flower and vegetable gardens.

According to Christy Hargrove, the founder, "Celebration of the event itself is up to the individual or group -- anything from putting out extra food for the squirrels to learning something new about the species."

[Adam]

We don't have any squirrels in my neighborhood. Too many foxes. That's the good news.

The really good news is that nobody keeps their annoying little dogs outside either.