Celtics offensive foul call

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Learning pro rules does not mean you have to know other rules sets first.

Which is fine, if you're not working games in those other rule sets.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

1)There are people in this area that work Pro-Am ball with NBA Rules with current college and professional players. The officials use NBA/Pro-Am rules and mechanics and several NBA Officials help train and evaluate the officials. Some get the opportunity to work in other Pro leagues that could lead to NBDL or the WNBA. I cannot speak for what goes on in other parts of the country, but that is an option for people around here.

2) Learning pro rules does not mean you have to know other rules sets first.

1) I was well aware of that. I am also aware that most of these Pro-Am leagues are mainly glorified rec leagues. I am also aware of the NBA Junior programs also that use NBA rules.

2) You missed my point completely. My point is that if an official is MAINLY working at the high school level, or maybe even doing a few D3/JUCO games, shouldn't that official spend the greater part of their time learning the rules, mechanics and philosophies of the level that they usually work in? Obviously, if btaylor is mainly or solely doing minor pro, NBDL or WNBA games, my post isn't germane or relevant. I was under the impression though, maybe wrongly, that Mr. Taylor is a young official with only a few years experience who is just breaking into high school varsity ball and also maybe doing some lower-level college stuff. If I am wrong in my assumption, I will certainly admit such.

My point was, and is, that imo an official should concentrate on learning the rules, mechanics and philosophies of the levels that they usually work in before spending a lot of time on another ruleset. I sureashell could be wrong, and it sureashell won't be the first time either, but it seems to me from his previous posts that Mr. Taylor knows a heckuva lot more about NBA rules than he does about NFHS/NCAA rules. If he is working mainly games played under NBA rules, then kudos to him. However, if he is working mainly games played under high school and college rules, then it might be a good idea for him imo to concentrate on the rulesets that he actually works.

[Cajun Reff]

I think if you want to reff real good you should learn the bennett salvatore or steve javie rule book and quite wasting time with that other stuff

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I can't speak to Ben's situation but I have seen and know NCAA officials who don't have a good grasp on NFHS rules.

If Ben is having trouble with NBA rules I'm sure he would receive a letter indicating such.

That doesn't answer any of my questions, News. I still don't know what levels that Ben usually works. As I said, I assumed(maybe completely wrongly) that Ben works mainly some high school/lower level college/rec/AAU ball played under mainly NFHS/NCAA rules. If he is in an NBA development program and the bulk of the games that he is doing are played under NBA rules, then more luck to him. That seems to be his dream.

Btw, if there are NCAA officials doing games under NFHS rules without bothering to learn those rules, then they're doing all of us a dis-service. That's just wrong.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

My point was, and is, that imo an official should concentrate on learning the rules, mechanics and philosophies of the levels that they usually work in before spending a lot of time on another ruleset.

And a fine point it is. Now please move it to a new thread about philosophies, and leave this thread to people who would like to actually discuss the play.

[Adam]

Uh oh!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

And a fine point it is. Now please move it to a new thread about philosophies, and leave this thread to people who would like to actually discuss the play.

Is this Bob or Mick hacking Scrappy's ID & speaking as a mod in this post?

Or should we get the mods to proclaim Scrappy as "Content Police Member"?

I'm fine either way... just trying to figure out your standing on this matter.

and btw... it seems the discussion on this play is he ffffed it up or he made a great call.
Except for you who is sitting exactly on the fence.

[mick]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

...I have seen and know NCAA officials who don't have a good grasp on NFHS rules.

I've seen a couple. They are clinicians and assignors for high school level camps.

[Adam]

I just heard on the radio that until this year, there have been 61 NBA finals; of which the Lakers or Celtics have won 30. So, after this year, those two teams will have combined for exactly half of all NBA finals champions.

And the Celtics have won 8 of their 16 championships against the Lakers, in 10 tries against them.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) I was well aware of that. I am also aware that most of these Pro-Am leagues are mainly glorified rec leagues. I am also aware of the NBA Junior programs also that use NBA rules.

2) You missed my point completely. My point is that if an official is MAINLY working at the high school level, or maybe even doing a few D3/JUCO games, shouldn't that official spend the greater part of their time learning the rules, mechanics and philosophies of the level that they usually work in? Obviously, if btaylor is mainly or solely doing minor pro, NBDL or WNBA games, my post isn't germane or relevant. I was under the impression though, maybe wrongly, that Mr. Taylor is a young official with only a few years experience who is just breaking into high school varsity ball and also maybe doing some lower-level college stuff. If I am wrong in my assumption, I will certainly admit such.

My point was, and is, that imo an official should concentrate on learning the rules, mechanics and philosophies of the levels that they usually work in before spending a lot of time on another ruleset. I sureashell could be wrong, and it sureashell won't be the first time either, but it seems to me from his previous posts that Mr. Taylor knows a heckuva lot more about NBA rules than he does about NFHS/NCAA rules. If he is working mainly games played under NBA rules, then kudos to him. However, if he is working mainly games played under high school and college rules, then it might be a good idea for him imo to concentrate on the rulesets that he actually works.

At the time, I knew my HS rules pretty well. I always made a 90+ on my tests, but let's just say i don't need to know them so much any more. I didn't do it like you want people to and you are probably right that officials should study the rulesets that they work the most but I had a goal to reach and I wanted to know the rules for it. That's just me though. I might have done it wrong but I don't regret it in the least.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I just heard on the radio that until this year, there have been 61 NBA finals; of which the Lakers or Celtics have won 30. So, after this year, those two teams will have combined for exactly half of all NBA finals champions.

And the Celtics have won 8 of their 16 championships against the Lakers, in 10 tries against them.

Similar with Toronto and Montreal; they've accounted for just under half of all Stanley Cup winners.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

And a fine point it is. Now please move it to a new thread about philosophies, and leave this thread to people who would like to actually discuss the play.

Good Lord, it's communicable. Now we got ourselves another one that wants to dictate what and where something should be posted.

Lah me........now the NBA philosophy isn't pertinent to an NBA foul call. I'm questioning whether there actually IS an NBA philosophy when it comes to fouls, traveling, etc., and if there is, then whatinthehell is it? Don't you think that might just be a teeny-weeny bit relevant to what you want to discuss?

Btw, you win. I'm outa this one. Buh-bye.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

At the time, I knew my HS rules pretty well. I always made a 90+ on my tests, but let's just say i don't need to know them so much any more. I didn't do it like you want people to and you are probably right that officials should study the rulesets that they work the most but I had a goal to reach and I wanted to know the rules for it. That's just me though. I might have done it wrong but I don't regret it in the least.

Congratulations on reaching your goals and leaving high school ball in your rear-view mirror. You obviously had no interest in that level anyway. I take it that you are at least doing semi-pro, NBDL and WNBA games on a regular basis now.

Btw, does that apply to NCAA games too? Have you now gone beyond that level also? Just wondering.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Congratulations on reaching your goals and leaving high school ball in your rear-view mirror. You obviously had no interest in that level anyway. I take it that you are at least doing semi-pro, NBDL and WNBA games on a regular basis now.

Btw, does that apply to NCAA games too? Have you now gone beyond that level also? Just wondering.

Let me answer you without being the least bit condescending, like you have been with me ever since I started posting here. I haven't left HS in the rear view mirror, I still work it every once in a while, why heck, I even reffed some junior high games. I also ref some D2 and some D1 and i ref in the NBA Development League. I am only telling you this because it seems to be such a big issue for you. I would have preferred it just have been kept in anonymity but if you are that hellbent on it then here you are.

Lastly, I don't really have a problem with you but you seem to have one with me and I'm sorry about that, I'm just providing this forum with information of what I have been taught just like everyone else on here.

[Kelvin green]

I will chime in here because we have a Pro-Am League here and have done it for several years now... There is actually value in knowing the basic NBA rules...

Many of the things you hear coaches yell for when they are howler monkeys (especially at the lower levels) is what the see on TV in the NBA. by understanding what they are yelling about it does in fact allow to explain better or at least understand their (of course idiotic) position.

When you hear them calling for a travel when the shooter gets his own shot before it hits the rim, running OOB rule, one shot T's, three second rule, backcourt rule and loose balls, the crash under neath the basket we call PC but yell he's under the basket......

When you ref a game with Pro rules and have to watch for defensive three seconds you really do ref the defense. When you have to call the restricted area and know who the primary and secondary players are. When you know the sub rules may be different, it adds a whole new perspective in paying attention to the game.

There are a lot of guys that are bigger, faster, stronger playing in that game and officiating it teaches you about position, advantage disadvantage, ad plays, you will never see in a jv ball game...

Best of all you can pull a Mark Padgett and when a coach asks about a call that he thinks is a NFHS rule but is really NBA you have the witty comeback...

Youre absolutely right coach there are 29 arenas in the country where you would be 100% right, this just isnt one of them....

(if it is the playoffs like right now) Its there are only two arenas...

Or something else like "when you get paid like Phil Johnson, I'll make that call"