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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 11:25am
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Celtics offensive foul call

It's slow today, and nobody has mentioned this call in the Celtics game.

(Before we even start, if you're just going to make a [email protected] comment about the NBA, please just stay away.)

This is a play that 98% of the time is called against the defender. I have no problem with Bennet Salvatore's call here because Pierce jumps sideways. But the NBA call, in general, is to call this against the defender; and it seems a really strange time to swim that hard against the tide.

Is this call correct?

Is it appropriate for the game and situation?

  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 11:57am
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Question

"He can pivot into a man that's jumping forward." What the H-E-double hockey sticks does that mean?
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 12:21pm
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this is definitely an offensive foul. The norm or status quo you are talking about is when the defender jumps directly at the shooter and the offensive player can then draw a foul from such, but hamilton is jumping to the side of Pierce, more like a fly by, and pierce steps over into him overtly which we are told to deem this as well as plays such as overt leg kicks during jump shots and wipe outs on plays to the basket as offensive fouls.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 12:49pm
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That's a foul, but Fisher hip checking Barry is not. Neither was a travel.
No rhyme or reason.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 12:54pm
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Correct, shooter moved into the path of an airborne player without allowing that player a place to land. Normally with a shot, this is not strictly considered....the shooter is often moving "into" the path of the defender but the two paths are already on a collision course. In this case, the airborne defensive player would have completely missed the shooter but for the completely unusual side step of the shooter.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 01:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
Before we even start, if you're just going to make a [email protected] comment about the NBA, please just stay away.
I've officiated basketball for close to 50 years and I don't have a clue what criteria is used in the NBA to make ANY foul call. Note that isn't a smart-azz comment either; it's a fact.
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Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 01:03pm
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Great call by 15.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 01:07pm
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Where Have You Gone Bill Russell ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
That's a foul. Neither was a travel.
Based on my knowledge of NFHS rules:

Disagree. Pierce traveled, watch his left foot, the pivot foot.

Agree. Since travel wasn't called, it was a player control foul. Pierce certainly initiates contact by moving to his right, into Hamilton.

Full disclosure. I'm not a big NBA fan, but when I do pay any attention to this league, I pay attention to the Celtics. I grew up watching the Celtics, coached by Bill Russell, on ABC, on Sunday afternoons. Defense, teamwork, fast break offense, you gotta love the good old days.

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 01:09pm.
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 01:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
That's a foul. Neither was a travel.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac
Based on my knowledge of NFHS rules:

Disagree. Pierce traveled, watch his left foot, the pivot foot.

Agree. Since travel wasn't called, it was a player control foul. Pierce certainly initiates contact by moving to his right, into Hamilton.

Full disclosure. I'm not a big NBA fan, but when I do pay any attention to this league, I pay attention to the Celtics. I grew up watching the Celtics, coached by Bill Russell, on ABC, on Sunday afternoons. Defense, teamwork, fast break offense, you gotta love the good old days.

I wasn't giving my opinion. I was comparing the two cases and saying what had actually been called. Both were probably travels. But NBA travels are like eating soup with a fork, you just don't pick up much. I'm saying that Fisher made at least as much contact with Barry, and I think Barry was put at a disadvantage by not being able to get off a shot cleanly. If Pierce doesn't move into Hamilton he passes by cleanly, yes, but did this bump but Hamilton at a disadvantage? I say no.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 02:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
I wasn't giving my opinion. I was comparing the two cases and saying what had actually been called. Both were probably travels. But NBA travels are like eating soup with a fork, you just don't pick up much. I'm saying that Fisher made at least as much contact with Barry, and I think Barry was put at a disadvantage by not being able to get off a shot cleanly. If Pierce doesn't move into Hamilton he passes by cleanly, yes, but did this bump but Hamilton at a disadvantage? I say no.

Rasheed: "It ain't basketball. It's (bleeping) entertainment."
With all due respect, I have never seen two games where every contact was considered a foul or not a foul across the board at any level. This should not be about the NBA no more than if I showed video of two high school plays and come to a conclusion that is what is expected or not expected at the high school level.

Both the Pierce call and the Fisher call are not the same things or the same kind of contact.

Peace
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 02:36pm
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Thumbs up thumbs up to Salvatore...

Great call.

If Pierce jumps normally for a shot, he gets slammed, and the foul is on Hamilton. And one.

Instead, Pierce makes the dirty streetball play and lunges sideways - leading with his elbow - into the airborne Hamilton. Brain cramps like that deserve to be penalized.

Kudos to Salvatore for having the cajones to make that call.

"He can pivot into a man that's jumping forward" - what a ridiculously ignorant comment. Instead of waiting to see a better angle on the replay, the announcers dump all over the official. Big surprise. Not.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 02:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
It's slow today, and nobody has mentioned this call in the Celtics game.

(Before we even start, if you're just going to make a [email protected] comment about the NBA, please just stay away.)

This is a play that 98% of the time is called against the defender. I have no problem with Bennet Salvatore's call here because Pierce jumps sideways. But the NBA call, in general, is to call this against the defender; and it seems a really strange time to swim that hard against the tide.

Is this call correct?

Is it appropriate for the game and situation?
Personally, I really liked the call, as well as being really surprised that call was made.
When I make similar calls on a high school floor, I make 1/2 the people really upset!
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 02:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
Personally, I really liked the call, as well as being really surprised that call was made.
When I make similar calls on a high school floor, I make 1/2 the people really upset!
haha, I feel your pain.

My line to the coach is:

"I had a defensive foul all the way....until your player_________"
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 03:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
With all due respect, I have never seen two games where every contact was considered a foul or not a foul across the board at any level. This should not be about the NBA no more than if I showed video of two high school plays and come to a conclusion that is what is expected or not expected at the high school level.

Both the Pierce call and the Fisher call are not the same things or the same kind of contact.

Peace
scrapper wants to talk about THIS play. yes there is a travel in this play, i think everybody might agree with that, the NBA noted that there should have been a foul with the fisher, Barry play. Scrapper just wants to discuss the reasoning of THIS play. so why are we beating a dead horse? Let's discuss some of these plays:

Cheap And 1 early in the clip and then weak foul with .1 left:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No5hnQ0JjUA


I don't see anything wrong with this player positioning either:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mILwQctYLw
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 01, 2008, 04:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64
scrapper wants to talk about THIS play. yes there is a travel in this play, i think everybody might agree with that, the NBA noted that there should have been a foul with the fisher, Barry play. Scrapper just wants to discuss the reasoning of THIS play. so why are we beating a dead horse? Let's discuss some of these plays:

Cheap And 1 early in the clip and then weak foul with .1 left:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No5hnQ0JjUA


I don't see anything wrong with this player positioning either:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mILwQctYLw
I do not necessarily agree with the NBA Postition on this. For one the official did not have the benefit of replay and made a decision based on what was happening on the actual play.

Secondly, he referenced the Barry/Fisher play and that is why I referenced it. That being said I had no problem with the Pierce Offensive Foul call. That is just me.

Peace
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