state finals games- selecting refs

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

...Teams that get to the state finals know what they are doing but in the game about 60 fouls get called. State finals games should not be called that tight especially when there was not dirty play going on...

Maybe there was no dirty play going on because the game was being called tightly.

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

...But my first question was do they pick refs all over the state or ones who are used to working together...

Obviously each state has its own process. How bout telling us the state so someone with knowledge of that state's policies/procedures can intelligently answer that question.

[Cajun Reff]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Bottom line with all this is if you work in a state where crews are the norm, then the non-crews for post-season basketball is going to be a change from the norm and present some officials with challenges while others will handle it fine.

I now work in a state where I have different partners every night. Crews are non-existant at any level of play. While it is different than my last state, where crews are normal, it has been a blast for me. And once you are used to it, it's not a problem. It just makes pre-games much more important.

in Louisiana the first three rounds of the state playoffs the assignments are 3man crews from an agreed upon Association (and sometimes they are from the home town of one of the teams if both coaches agree to it). The 3 man crews are mixed bag from the Association's Assignment Secretary.

The first round will see a group of a 2nd year or up, a 5th year or up and a senior crew chief. The second round will see two 5th year or up and a senior crew chief. The third round will see three crew chiefs with one guy as the senior reff onsite.

The Final Four assignments are done by the LHSAA Director of Officials, Asst Commissioner Mac Chauvin and he picks the neutral crews from all over the state and assigns them to games himself. To get on his list of Final Four (we call it the Top 28) caliber Reffs you must go in June to the LHSAA three man camp in Baton Rouge at LSU. Once they see you work and take note of your potential they will keep an eye on you and ask various coaches and your Assignment Secretary about your development and reputation.

[lpbreeze]

yah, it may have been that the refs were looking to prove themselves and show good technique instead of calling games how they usually do. Because both teams have such good post players and half court sets the game was physical.

---extra
The McClymonds of Oakland vs. Dominguez-Compton div. 1 game was a blast to watch on tv last night (replay). The Mater Dei game was the night before and I think the refs may have heard the criticism of how that game was called so in the div 1 game a lot less fouls were called and the game had a great flow to it. I would say it was an easier game to officiate but there were many instances of plays that were called fouls in the Mater Dei game but were not in the div 1 game. I'm a bit shocked but McClymonds is the best team in the State.



- that Compton player needed to stop SHOOTING NBA THREES! it was at Arco Arena

[Adam]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

yah, it may have been that the refs were looking to prove themselves and show good technique instead of calling games how they usually do. ...

I think the refs may have heard the criticism of how that game was called so in the div 1 game a lot less fouls were called and the game had a great flow to it. I would say it was an easier game to officiate but there were many instances of plays that were called fouls in the Mater Dei game but were not in the div 1 game.

Unreal.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

yah, it may have been that the refs were looking to prove themselves and show good technique instead of calling games how they usually do.

It also may be that you don't have the knowledge or experience to evaluate officials at ANY level. Of course, that never does stop you from crapping all over them.

Back-stabbing integrity-lacking scumbag.

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

yah, it may have been that the refs were looking to prove themselves and show good technique instead of calling games how they usually do.

That doesn't make sense! Prove themselves? The fact that they got the gig means they have arrived. Why would anyone stray from what got you the assignment in the first place? Maybe they called tight games all year. It might have something to do with them being picked in the first place.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

yah, it may have been that the refs were looking to prove themselves and show good technique instead of calling games how they usually do. Because both teams have such good post players and half court sets the game was physical.

More likely is the teams were over-hyped and trying to prove themselves and that led to a game that had a lot of fouls.

It's really not that difficult. Every one of us has been in a game where the flow (or lack thereof) was dictated by players who couldn't play within the rules.

You strike me as one who may not have experienced a game like that, and figure that any time 60 fouls are called it's the officials' fault. That, or you are a backstabbing scumbag as suggested above.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

That doesn't make sense! Prove themselves? The fact that they got the gig means they have arrived. Why would anyone stray from what got you the assignment in the first place? Maybe they called tight games all year. It might have something to do with them being picked in the first place.

What you have here is a first-year official who has never worked a varsity high school game in his life critiquing an obviously veteran crew picked for the state championships. If you look at his original post, his learned evaluation of this crew consists of "poorly officiated", "phantom fouls" and "whistle happy". What does that tell you about this particular poster?

Note that this isn't the first time that he's come on here and crapped all over officials in the exact same manner either.

Just another scumbag troll imo......

[jbduke]

Do you guys honestly believe that name-calling is going to help this kid develop some insight into some of the problems with his comments? You completely cede the high-road when you call anyone a "backstabbing, integrity-lacking scumbage" or whatever it was.

If anything, you're only driving him more securely into his probably-preconceived notion that he already knows a lot and everybody on this board who disagrees is just an old fart.

If he's not going to take the mentoring advice offered him a couple of pages back, either keep trying to give it or ignore him, but for cripes sake don't let the guy drag you into the adolescent gutter.

[lpbreeze]

whatever. huge difference in the div 1 and div 2 games and how they were called. Nothing to do with angles which I could see led to missed calls in the Stanford/UCLA game. There were simply bunch of calls that were wrong or should not have been called and replay clearly showed that. Excuse me as a fan of basketball but I wanted to see two great teams battle it out and have the best team win. Instead Mater Dei wins and I'm not convinced they are the best team because of the way the game was called. They were the best last year when the same teams played. In the div 1 game the best team clearly won.

last post really- perhaps all 4 teams will be nationally ranked in the top 20 which is great for California albeit national rankings for h.s. are a bit pointless.

I have learned some from JR and others who helped me on some of the questions I've asked and I'm thankful. But I've learned to make my own calls and if an more experienced disagrees with me well that is their problem. I've had them before the game try to get me to call a tight game or let them play and I've found that isn't the way to go. luckily most of my partners have been more in the middle and it has worked out.


edit- Communication, technique, dealing with coaches, position, and rules are things I listen to the more experienced refs. But I will take my judgment during a game over most of them. I know I will miss calls but as an official I don't want to change how teams play and that is what I saw during the State championship game.

((Rec games are so funny. I want to record some and make a best of list. ))) final

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Just wondering.... Have you ever seen a poorly officiated contest?

Yes, in many a Rec League...and the officiating was still better than the caliber of play.

Originally Posted by socalreff

the only problem is JR can't help himself.

I wouldn't say that... short leash maybe, but can't help himself... nah.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Note that this isn't the first time that he's come on here and crapped all over officials in the exact same manner either.

A poster comes to the forum to crap on an official once & he/she learns from it, good. But after multiple offenses, JR is gonna tell it like it is.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

...Teams that get to the state finals know what they are doing but in the game about 60 fouls get called. State finals games should not be called that tight especially when there was not dirty play going on...

breeze, you made this statement above yet SMEngmann saw the same game and made this observation:

The game was borderline out of control even with the number of fouls called, including 3 Ts and an intentional foul.

I am now confused to how this game was actually played.

[lpbreeze]

I thought someone else made that comment. The Intentional foul was a great call and I'm glad it wasn't a flagrant because it looked like it at first. Replay showed the refs got it right. But I felt they happened because the players were frustrated with how the game was being called. Both teams are well coached and well-disciplined and it would not have been a dirty game. It would have been a physical game but well played had the refs not blown the whistle so much.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

But I felt they happened because the players were frustrated with how the game was being called.

I haven't exactly been officiating for 50 years, but I have never seen a player commit an intentional foul out of frustration with too many fouls being called.

You might want to send that letter. And I'd copy the three officials in as well, they deserve to know what they did wrong. They probably just got caught up in the emotion.