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Originally Posted by Scrapper1
So it's offensive when somebody attempts humor that points out a stereotype of some women, but it's perfectly fine for you to insult an entire gender by seriously -- not jokingly -- stating that men are incapable of discerning humor from bigotry? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, Rita. The air must be pretty thin way up on that high horse.
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Scrappy, I took that joke as offensive, too, and not as humor. Your explanation (below) makes no sense to me. I don't think that BITS statement was the joke, he was just stating a fact. There's a sophomore boys team, and the coach is female. Mark's joke was weird, and I assumed he was trying to be double sarcastic or something, but it definitely wasn't funny on the face of it. At least not to me. I know Mark, and know he's not bigoted, but I also see how anyone who doesn't know Mark could assume he's a real a$$ from this statement. I didn't respond because I have a really nasty case of the flu and didn't see Mark's "joke" until there had been enough time pass that I didn't think it would be helpful to say anything. But it is definitely NOT a benign "joke".
Rita is, I think, expressing surprise that no males spoke against that comment, and from this fact is inferring that men, as a group, didn't see the offense. Truth is, I think you're right that most men on this board aren't bigoted at all, or aren't very bigoted. Although I've done my share of bristling at what I think is offensive, overall, it's a pretty safe place, especially compared to the larger officiating world.
But in this world, there's NOWHERE that women aren't sometimes put down or assumed to be less than men, at least upon occasion. It's just the way life is. As Rita says, it's also true of racial minorities. I know that enlightened men like you (no sarcasm intended, I know you're one of the good ones) have trouble believing that, but it's just plain true.
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1
You know why we "missed" it, Rita? Because it's not a joke about the woman. It's a joke about language!!! The humor is in the fact that "sophomore" might refer to the coach (as in, "sophomoric") instead of to the team of sophomore-aged boys. It has nothing at all to do with the gender of the coach.
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Sorry, Scrappy, I don't follow. How is applying the term sophomoric to a woman not an insult?
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1
If you take a moment to try NOT to be offended, sometimes you find that there's actually no offense to be taken.
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This is true as a generalization. I'm not sure it applies here. Rita doesn't know Mark and I think her read of his statement being offensive is very reasonable.
The real problem is that when a woman, a racial minority, a guy, anyone who is systematically put down or held down has to stop and analyze every situation, every statement, every job interview, every traffic stop, every characterization, every look, every joke, every double meaning, every assignment, every insult, every..... well, it's just exhausting. It's just easier to live by that tried and true saying, "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you."
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1
I wasn't there, but I personally don't think you handled it well. You escalated the situation when you could've made your exact same point with a sarcastic comment like, "Yeah, you wouldn't want that!"
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I disagree. What she said didn't escalate. She got her point across, and the guy changed his behavior. In situations like this, humor is a mixed message. It says to everyone who hears the exchange that joking is a good way to avoid being responsible for the damage that's being done. Rita told the coach and the kid in a clear but non-violent way that his thinking was completely unacceptable and that it needed to change. The meta-message is that although the coach is just assuming that there's something wrong with being a woman, actually there isn't and the coach should quit teaching his kids that. Women everywhere would be thrilled to see how Rita did this in a very appropriate way, imo.
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1
I probably will. But I have to tell you that your post touched a real nerve. Not because you're so quick to point out possibly offensive comments by other; but by your callous willingness to engage in exactly the behavior that you're so offended by in others.
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What else has been said on this board that would make her think any male DIDN'T think this joke was funny, or that any male isn't amused by Mark's joke? She's might be guilty of over-generalizing but she's certainly NOT guilty of callously being hypocritical. No men saw (or no men pointed out) the offense that might be attached to Marks "joke", and Rita is offended by that.
And I don't buy your explanation that the men on this site see it as a language joke. I doubt half of them did. Most readers of this site simply don't think in those terms. That's not a gender-based slam. It's just a comment on the general type of person who's here. SOme are very interested in language and can do some pretty sophisticated wordplay. Most aren't. Not a reflection on intelligence or gender. Just an observation of the nature subject matter and general direction of this site.
Sun Dec 30, 2007, 01:28am
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