time out after made basket Question

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by mbyron

In fact, todd pen was wrong. Although your team might have had the ball, it's unclear from your description whether the official had begun the five-second count.

Notice the conjunction: AND. Both of these conditions in the rule must be met before the throw-in has begun and it's too late to call a TO. Since the official called the TO, I would surmise that he had NOT begun the five-second count, in which case he would be following correct procedure.

Thanks for playing.

This in fact was exactly what I was thinking as I read this thread over. I will call a T.O. right up to the start of a 5 second count. I have even delayed a whistle to see if my partner who is right in front of the benches will blow his whistle to relay the T.O. request first. If it doesn't happen then I will call it and this sometimes happens after the ball has been collected for the throw in.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

That's kinda strong. We really don't have enough information from the description he gave to make that definitive statement.

FWIW, I think everyone's kinda piling on Todd Pen. He just asked for a rule clarification from an expert source. Maybe he wants to be a snot with the official that made the call, but I think he was pretty respectful here. Why the nastiness?

I agree. Nevada was "wrong" to use "clearly you have never read a book" (or whatever teh exact phrase was, Todd was worng to "gloat" and to over-react to Nevada, the official was wrong in his phrasing (if the report by Todd was accurate), .....

It's the official's judgment as to when the throw-in begins. If the time out request was before then, the official was correct to grant it. It's clear that in Todd's opinion, the request was made after the throw-in began. Officials have made worse mistakes. Shrug.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Why the nastiness?

Todd criticized a ref, and Nevada reacted stiffly and perhaps a little haughtily, and then Todd overreacted. Todd's initial criticism was not really all that severe considering some of the other stuff we've seen here in the past, so I don't exactly understand Nevada's reaction, except that's just Nevada, but Todd didn't know him before, and kinda mistook the situation, however understandably. That's why.

[SamIAm]

Hey Todd,

What defense were you guys playing before they scored? Oops, I answered my own question, BAD defense since they scored. Who was not guarding the scorer? Could he/she not get legal guarding position?

Please fill us in on what you have said to your mistake prone teammate.

Aditionally,
I have good news for you. While the official probably made a mistake, it seems like his offficiating level may have been right in line with the ability of the players.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

Hey Todd,

What defense were you guys playing before they scored? Oops, I answered my own question, BAD defense since they scored. Who was not guarding the scorer? Could he/she not get legal guarding position?

Please fill us in on what you have said to your mistake prone teammate.

Aditionally,
I have good news for you. While the official probably made a mistake, it seems like his offficiating level may have been right in line with the ability of the players.

C'mon, Sam, I think this is unnecessary. As SmokeEater said, maybe he shouldn't have yelled at the ref during the game, but his question here was certainly not offensive enough to merit this kind of hostility. No need to be so inflammatory.

[Bad Zebra]

At the risk of pi$$ing off my fellow officials, I am going to go out on a limb here and say this whole thread is a good example of why some players and coaches have bad attitudes toward us and consider us unapproachable.

A guy comes on here and asks a legit question...no one knows his motives. We just know the rules as they pertain to the scenario he painted. He gets his question answered accurately and then he's attacked. Some of you who didn't attack him feel the need to defend the actions of those that did. Why?

Is this what happens over time as an official? We get so jaded and cranky that we just assume a player/coaches motives are always suspect? I wonder how some of you function in society on a day to day basis. Do you react to everyone like that or just save it for officiating?

[Adam]

Juulie, I disagree. Nevada's post was pointed and brief, but it was hardly insulting. Sure, he made an assumption that may or may not have been wrong; but beyond that....

The over-reaction was clearly not Nevada's.

I vote to have Nevada removed, though, as he's corrected my spelling as well.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

1) People generally don't address each other in this rude, aggressive way in person.

2) Why don't you just STFU you ignorant irrelevant old fool.

1) I generally do. Maybe we need a poll.......

2) You hurt my feelings. So......... I'm gonna kick Chuck the next time I see him.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

At the risk of pi$$ing off my fellow officials, I am going to go out on a limb here and say this whole thread is a good example of why some players and coaches have bad attitudes toward us and consider us unapproachable.

A guy comes on here and asks a legit question...no one knows his motives. We just know the rules as they pertain to the scenario he painted. He gets his question answered accurately and then he's attacked. Some of you who didn't attack him feel the need to defend the actions of those that did. Why?

Is this what happens over time as an official? We get so jaded and cranky that we just assume a player/coaches motives are always suspect? I wonder how some of you function in society on a day to day basis. Do you react to everyone like that or just save it for officiating?

What do you mean "us"?

You're confusing a "few" with "us".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I vote to have Nevada removed.....

Maybe we should have a poll........

Why are these officials treating todd so harsh? (see below)

Originally Posted by todd pen

Exactly what I thought! And yes I am that irate coach/player. Just mens league, but this ref calls the timeout and stops our fast break. Then has the gaul to say that he can call the timeout at any time before the ball enters play again.
Always nice to be vindicated. Thanks

Well, first of all todd has the gaul -errrr- gall to enter an officials forum with a mere wreck league card in an attempt to point out an officials mistake. Secondly, when he received the answer he thought he wanted to hear, he revealed who he truly was, what "level" he played at & thus the gloating began.

I thank Nevada for the rule breakdown & putting this wreck league superstar in his place!

As a two sport official, I have been reduced to working wreck ball since my season ended in February (thank GOD football starts this weekend). I deal with todd pens every other night. They KNOW it all but can't seem to line up for FTs correctly, OR think that stepping ON the endline (not breaking the plane) for a throw-in results in a violation. And then there are those who "used to ref" or "have a copy of rulebook but it's at home".

Todd got what he asked for... Nevada just put the ruling out there for others to learn instead of just offering his opinion on the play.

How can one ask for a rule clarification & get upset when it's laid out for him??

[Jimgolf]

I don't think it's necessary to impugn that someone has never read a rule book just because they're asking a question or are a player or a coach. I have ready many rule books, many times, but I'm senile, so I forget. Or the rules don't make sense. Or the gist of the rule is buried somewhere in the exceptions and the interpretations.

On the other hand, the subtlety of Nevada's initial response appeared to escape the OP, who should have read more carefully Nevada's response before assuming he knew it all. When someone takes the trouble to post an interpretation and mark it up in red to highlight the precise answer, the person who asks the question should pay attention.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Maybe we should have a poll........

Someone has to second the motion first.

I second.

Let's vote.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

2) You hurt my feelings. So......... I'm gonna kick Chuck the next time I see him.

Make sure it's a low kick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Make sure it's a low kick

A low kick will still hit him in the head.