time out after made basket Question

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Just Another Ref

But.....

6-1-2 tells us that the ball becomes live when ".....on a throw-in, it is at the disposal of the thrower."

4-42-3 tells us: The throw-in and the throw-in count begin when the ball is at the disposal of a player of the team entitled to it.

4-4-7 tells us: The ball is at the disposal of a player when it is available to a player after after a goal.

The word available indicates that the count could start even before being touched.....and in the interpretation "B1.....secures the ball and begins heading toward the end line...." In this case the ball is past the point of being available, is it not? This situation insinuates that the count does not start until B1 steps out of bounds with the ball. If this were the case, in a last second situation if team A has no time out, B1 could kill additional time (you tell me how much) by delaying stepping out of bounds.

You're right in all cases. And in general, once someone has picked up the ball, I won't grant a TO.

However, in the case cited by Nevada, the casebook specifically says that beginning the count is part of the definition of when the throw-in begins. I think it's a bad case to put in the case book because it doesn't really say how quickly all those actions happened. And I think the case book should say "the ball is available." Period. The ref should have started the count and it doesn't need to be said.

In the stalling situation you're talking about, the count should have already begun if the ball is on the floor and no one is picking it up. In that case, it's available. We've argued about these cases before, and there's no clear answer as to exactly when to start the count, but clearly, if they're trying to stall, the count is the remedy.

In the OP, the ref clearly goofed. Nevada's trying to justify the ref by saying the count might not have begun yet, so the throw-in hadn't begun, but I don't buy it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But.....

6-1-2 tells us that the ball becomes live when ".....on a throw-in, it is at the disposal of the thrower."

4-42-3 tells us: The throw-in and the throw-in count begin when the ball is at the disposal of a player of the team entitled to it.

4-4-7 tells us: The ball is at the disposal of a player when it is available to a player after after a goal.

The word available indicates that the count could start even before being touched.....and in the interpretation "B1.....secures the ball and begins heading toward the end line...." In this case the ball is past the point of being available, is it not? This situation insinuates that the count does not start until B1 steps out of bounds with the ball. If this were the case, in a last second situation if team A has no time out, B1 could kill additional time (you tell me how much) by delaying stepping out of bounds.

The ball is "available" if B1 is in position to make a throw-in or reasonably could be expected to be in such a position (and, yes, that requires some judgment).

The ball isn't "available" just because B1 has the ball -- if they are still heading out of bounds, then they can't yet make a throw in, so the ball is (usually) not available. If B1 is dealying, then the ball could well be avaialble -- they had reasonable time to get the ball out of bounds.

Similarly, the ball might be "available" even if B1 hasn't touched the ball -- if the ball is sitting outside the end-line, and B1 is delaying touching the ball, the official might judge that the B1 (or any B player) could reasonably be expected to have retrieved the ball and started the count.

[cloverdale]

todd pen....apr 2006...total posts 5

nevadaref...nov 2002...total posts 5285

who contributes more to this forum ?

who has more rules knowledge?

there is a small group of officals on this forum who really add to this forum day in and day out...and by far the explainations by nevadaref has helped many on this forum to become better officals...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by cloverdale

todd pen....apr 2006...total posts 5

nevadaref...nov 2002...total posts 5285

who contributes more to this forum ?

who has more rules knowledge?

Well, according to that logic.......

Old School....nov 2006....total posts 924

cloverdale.....jan 2004.....total posts 107

who contributes more to this forum?

who has more rules knowledge?