Partner's HUUUUGE Blunder

[hooptown]

JV Tournament finals. Under 0:10 to play. Home team is fouled on a shot and goes to the line down by one. First free throw is made, but partner waves it off emphatically. Shooter's foot was on the line. Crowd goes bananas! This is partner's 2nd or 3rd goofy call in the half, but is the only call in the game that will be remembered. Next FT is missed, visiting team wins by three.

Postgame partner says "I hated making that call, and such a nice kid too".
The home coach sends a nasty email to our convenor blaming "the refs".

My question: What is the best course of action in this situation as it unfolds. Obviously standing at lead, mouth agape does not reverse partner's call (whoops). Is bearhugging partner and demanding he invent a reason to overrule himself the right move?

More generally... besides OOB and backcourt what calls are reversible if partner is new or "goofy"? Other overrules I have seen
basket interference -> T for hanging on rim
common foul -> intentional (excessive contact) foul

[mick]

What was the huge blunder?

[tjones1]

I guess my question is as the L giving the throws, how could you see if the FT shooter's foot was on the line or not?

Also, you got to let them learn. Reversing calls or giving additional information all the time isn't going to teach a new official anything. If anything, they'll get lazy and be thinking, well if I screw it up my partner will correct it. Not something you want to happen. The only one I would change is a line call or something like that, and as per usual, only if I'm 110% sure I'm right.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by hooptown

JV Tournament finals. Under 0:10 to play. Home team is fouled on a shot and goes to the line down by one. First free throw is made, but partner waves it off emphatically. Shooter's foot was on the line. Crowd goes bananas! This is partner's 2nd or 3rd goofy call in the half, but is the only call in the game that will be remembered. Next FT is missed, visiting team wins by three.

Postgame partner says "I hated making that call, and such a nice kid too".
The home coach sends a nasty email to our convenor blaming "the refs".

My question: What is the best course of action in this situation as it unfolds. Obviously standing at lead, mouth agape does not reverse partner's call (whoops). Is bearhugging partner and demanding he invent a reason to overrule himself the right move?

More generally... besides OOB and backcourt what calls are reversible if partner is new or "goofy"? Other overrules I have seen
basket interference -> T for hanging on rim
common foul -> intentional (excessive contact) foul

Why would you even think of reversing your partner's call? The FT shooter having a foot on the line IS a violation. Are you saying that your partner should have ignored the violation?

Btw, you can never overrule your partner. The rules don't allow it. Only the official making a call can change his call.

[mplagrow]

Either we are misreading your post or you left something out.

[hooptown]

Gents,

By rule, there is no error. The shooter started and ended his free throw with a foot on the line. From a game management perspective the call looked BAAAD.

From lead I administered the throw and checked the the feet of the rebounders. I did not check the shooters feet, and to be honest, I don't think I have ever checked the shooter's feet from lead.

At any point in a game, if I am trail on a free throw and see the shooter lineup with a foot on the line I will step in and PREVENT this violation. If the shooter alights and lands on the line, that's a different story.

As to the overrules... In my association we are often held to account for the crew's performance, not just our own. We are sometimes told to step-up, though specific overrules are never discussed.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by hooptown

Gents,

By rule, there is no error.

What about 9-1-7?

[mick]

Originally Posted by hooptown

Gents,

By rule, there is no error. The shooter started and ended his free throw with a foot on the line. From a game management perspective the call looked BAAAD.

From lead I administered the throw and checked the the feet of the rebounders. I did not check the shooters feet, and to be honest, I don't think I have ever checked the shooter's feet from lead.

At any point in a game, if I am trail on a free throw and see the shooter lineup with a foot on the line I will step in and PREVENT this violation. If the shooter alights and lands on the line, that's a different story.

As to the overrules... In my association we are often held to account for the crew's performance, not just our own. We are sometimes told to step-up, though specific overrules are never discussed.

Which rule?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by hooptown

Gents,

1)By rule, there is no error. The shooter started and ended his free throw with a foot on the line. From a game management perspective the call looked BAAAD.

As to the overrules... In my association we are often held to account for the crew's performance, not just our own. We are sometimes told to step-up, though specific overrules are never discussed.

1) Read NFHS rule 9-1-7. You're wrong. From a game management perspective, do you always pick and choose what violations that you think should be called?

2) Read NFHS rule 2-6.You can't overrule another official's call.

Question? Does your association have a rules interpreter?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Read NFHS rule 9-1-7. You're wrong. From a game management perspective, do you always pick and choose what violations that you think should be called?

I think you and Mick are mis-interpreting hooptown's intent on his phrasing. He's saying "by rule, the official did not make an error, but from a game management point he did."

In general, I agree with him. If it can be prevented, do so. Once it happens, however, it's too late. And, even if the crew is evaluated as a whole, there's no cause for overruling -- especially on a judgment issue.

[hooptown]

Bob jenkins has interpreted my words correctly. Rule 9-1-7 was violated, and my partner correctly enforced the violation. I believe the call can, and SHOULD have been prevented.

Jurassic thank you for pointing me at 2-6. In the spirit of that rule, calls are never overruled. Calls may be reversed (by the calling official) when additional information is provided by other crew members. We do have a rules interpreter.

[mick]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think you and Mick are mis-interpreting hooptown's intent on his phrasing. He's saying "by rule, the official did not make an error, but from a game management point he did."

In general, I agree with him. If it can be prevented, do so. Once it happens, however, it's too late. And, even if the crew is evaluated as a whole, there's no cause for overruling -- especially on a judgment issue.

Originally Posted by hooptown

...Shooter's foot was on the line....

Originally Posted by hooptown

...By rule, there is no error. The shooter started and ended his free throw with a foot on the line. From a game management perspective the call looked BAAAD.

Originally Posted by hooptown

I did not check the shooters feet, and to be honest, I don't think I have ever checked the shooter's feet from lead.

Yeah, you could color me confused. That's why I asked the two questions.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

1) I think you and Mick are mis-interpreting hooptown's intent on his phrasing. He's saying "by rule, the official did not make an error, but from a game management point he did."

2) In general, I agree with him. If it can be prevented, do so. Once it happens, however, it's too late. And, even if the crew is evaluated as a whole, there's no cause for overruling -- especially on a judgment issue.

1) Naw, I disagree with that. Hooptown was saying exactly what he wrote imo- which was his partner called a violation for the FT shooter's foot being on the line. I'm not so sure that hooptwn knew the correct rule when he wrote that. Anyway, that's simply a violation, not a "goofy call". I just can't see dumping on a partner so badly just because they made that particular call.

2) I certainly don't have a problem with the T finding a reason to re-set the FT either, and maybe whisper a l'il common sense to the FT shooter while doing so. But, as you say, once he calls the violation, that's all she wrote.

[Adam]

Your partner didn't screw up, the shooter did. I've 'no-called' this before, and the catcalls are just as wild. Maybe he could have done something to prevent it, but he's new.
Did the shooter catch the ball with a toe on the line? Or did he catch it behind the line and then step on it?
Now, partner should have probably waved off the free throw as soon as the foot hit the line while the shooter had the ball. Then you wouldn't have had a made free throw to wave off.

[bigdogrunnin]

I had something similar happen yesterday in a tournament 3rd Place game. On one end, we had THREE violations on ONE Free Throw attempt (as in, we had to re-attempt the shot three times because of violations/disconcertion on the opponent). Do we skip over them because they were not serious? NOPE. They were all called. (Kid missed ALL of the shots - 4 total.)

Same game, same half, opposite end of the floor. Kid gets fouled with 0.47 second on the clock (4th Quarter), they are down by ONE. Kid misses the first. Shoots the second, and the opponent nearest the shooter steps on the lane line. I hold my whistle. The shot misses and I immediately blow my whistle. VIOLATION! One shot. Should I have let this one go because he got his chance and it didn't create an advantage/disadvantage situation?? NOPE. It was a violation. I would say your partner did what he/she was supposed to do. Call the game. BTW, the kid missed the second FT too. Team lost by one. I felt bad for the kid. He and his entire team just crumbled to the floor when he missed. But I still wouldn't change the call.