Team Control Signal?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Referee is a good mag, but be very leary of any rules interpretations or mechanics it may print.

Geeze, Nevada, I thought that you knew better than that.

The only problem with that is the fact the NF has handed over the reigns of publishing many of the books for the NF to NASO. So you might be ultimately right, but REFEREE MAGAZINE produces the NF handbooks and now the Simplified and Illustrated books for all their sports. It may not be official, but it closer than most things at this time. Just like the CCA books, NASO is producing all the content for mechanics at least.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

NASO might sell some NFHS-approved material. IAABO is licensed to re-print the complete NFHS rules and case books also. NASO, and IAABO, however do not have rules-making, rules-interpreting, exam-setting or mechanics-changing powers though. Those functions lie solely with the NFHS or the state association responsible for a sports program. NASO also isn't licensed to sell the major publications, the rule and case books, either iirc.

Sez so right in the copyright statement on p.1 and on the bottom of p.2 of every NFHS basketball rule and case book.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

It's just a universal way to communicate an off the ball foul*.

-

* or a foul during an interrupted dribble for NCAA-W and NF

But not for NCAA-M?

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

But not for NCAA-M?

According to the 2005-06 NCAA rule Book, Signal #24 (hand on back of head) is the men's signal for a PC or TC foul. Signal #25 (jab/punch) is for women.

Having said that, a lot of the NCAA-M officials in my area use the jab for TC. And personally, I don't understand why they didn't make the signal universal for both NCAA-M and W (same for the rarely-used shorten timeout for substitution signal, #8). I realize that each has their own rules committee and such, but consistent signals would make things so much more simpler.

[JRutledge]

The NF Pre-Season Guides are produced from by NASO and give rules interpretations and mechanic changes or emphasis. This is not about who can produce the rulebooks or casebook. The NF uses these publications and sells them so people can read interpretations and changes in more detail. My state has been giving out these guides for free to everyone that attends a rules interpretation meeting for about 3 or 4 years now. I am not an IAABO member, but I have seen the IAABO rulebooks. Well this year all the Simplified and Illustrated books are produced only by NASO and also give interpretations directly from the NF. So Nevada was right on this issue. If there is a specific mechanic for the team control foul, it will likely be in the guide and might even be in the Simplified and Illustrated book. This is not Referee Magazine producing this on their own or creating case plays out of the sky. This is content the NF produces so more people can see the content.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The NF Pre-Season Guides are produced from by NASO and give rules interpretations and mechanic changes or emphasis. This is not about who can produce the rulebooks or casebook. The NF uses these publications and sells them so people can read interpretations and changes in more detail. My state has been giving out these guides for free to everyone that attends a rules interpretation meeting for about 3 or 4 years now. I am not an IAABO member, but I have seen the IAABO rulebooks. Well this year all the Simplified and Illustrated books are produced only by NASO and also give interpretations directly from the NF. So Nevada was right on this issue. If there is a specific mechanic for the team control foul, it will likely be in the guide and might even be in the Simplified and Illustrated book. This is not Referee Magazine producing this on their own or creating case plays out of the sky. This is content the NF produces so more people can see the content.

Peace

Sigh.....

http://www.nfhs.com/index.asp?cmd=sh...ory&peram_0=62

If you hit basketball, those are the official products that NFHS offers for sale on their website and through approved state associations. NASO is simply a supplier, similar to the publishers/printers of the rule and case books. Note that there is the new Simplified and Illustrated book for sale on the NFHS site.

NASO may have produced that particular book for the FED using NFHS supplied-material, and may also be re-selling that NFHS officially-approved book, but NASO is NOT producing the content per se . They are re-producing FED-supplied content only, the same as whoever prints the rule and case books for the FED.

Iow, if you see something in Referee magazine, that does not necessarily mean that what you're reading is a NFHS-approved rule, interepretation or mechanic. It may be, but it also may NOT be. That was my point.

[JRutledge]

I think you reading too much into what I am saying. The NF is using NASO to put out officiating material for the NF. NASO is using the play pics, the diagrams directly from NASO and Referee Magazine content.

If anyone has picked up the 2006 Football Simplified and Illustrated Rulebook (not sure the Basketball Rulebooks are out yet) it says:

Major portions of this book are protected by the copyrights of Referee Enterprises, Inc., and are used by permission. Copying in whole or in part is prohibited without prior written consent and Referee Enterprises, Inc., and the National Federation of the State High School Associations. PLAYPIC (Trademark) and MECHANICGRAM (Trademark) are trademarks of Referee Enterprises, Inc.

(Inside the rulebook next to the Table of Contents)

Now you can take that for what it is worth.

Peace

[Raymond]

Are we actually having a debate about publishing rights??? And I'm reading it!

I need a better social life.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by jritchie

got a quick question. I know the new signal is going to be like ncaa-w, the Fist. my question is have they said whether or not they want the other preliminary given or not? For example a moving screen: We would blow whistle, stop clock with raised arm and closed fist, then Would we give a blocking signal and then the fist or are we just going with the fist or have we not been told yet? i've read a lot of discussion about this and haven't gotten a definite answer yet or i missed it one, which is very possible! Hope everyone had a great summer, can't wait to get started again!

Here is my suggestion. Give only the preliminary "punch" at the spot. When reporting to the table add the push/block/hold signal for further clarification when needed.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Brad

I actually didn't think that we needed a new signal at all. A team control foul is not a new foul - there is just a new penalty. Why can't we still just signal illegal screen, push, block, etc. and just report it and go on? Just my $0.02

Illegal screen signal?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

According to the 2005-06 NCAA rule Book, Signal #24 (hand on back of head) is the men's signal for a PC or TC foul. Signal #25 (jab/punch) is for women.

Sure -- I see now that I misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying that a foul by Team A during an interrupted dribble was not a TC foul in NCAA-M. In fact, you were saying that it's a different signal. Sorry.

[UK-Dave]

the FIBA website will give details on how this signal is supposed to be used andwhen

http://www.fiba.com/pages/en/aboutfi...oads/rules.asp

happy hunting

[Texas Aggie]

My thought, without knowing anything being approved as of yet, is to give the foul/stop clock signal at the spot followed by the fist in the direction that play will resume. Then, go to the table and report the foul with the push/block (or whever) signal without the fist.

The fist is a great signal for spot only, in my view. The problem with using it at the table is, do you point toward the scorer? Toward the direction like at the spot?

[cloverdale]

reading the previous postings Nevadaref nailed it...our association wants closed fist...punched fist...secondary signal such as push or block...then throw in spot...

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Sure -- I see now that I misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying that a foul by Team A during an interrupted dribble was not a TC foul in NCAA-M. In fact, you were saying that it's a different signal. Sorry.

No problem