Team Control Signal?

[jritchie]

got a quick question. I know the new signal is going to be like ncaa-w, the Fist. my question is have they said whether or not they want the other preliminary given or not? For example a moving screen: We would blow whistle, stop clock with raised arm and closed fist, then Would we give a blocking signal and then the fist or are we just going with the fist or have we not been told yet? i've read a lot of discussion about this and haven't gotten a definite answer yet or i missed it one, which is very possible! Hope everyone had a great summer, can't wait to get started again!

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by jritchie

got a quick question. I know the new signal is going to be like ncaa-w, the Fist. my question is have they said whether or not they want the other preliminary given or not? For example a moving screen: We would blow whistle, stop clock with raised arm and closed fist, then Would we give a blocking signal and then the fist or are we just going with the fist or have we not been told yet? i've read a lot of discussion about this and haven't gotten a definite answer yet or i missed it one, which is very possible! Hope everyone had a great summer, can't wait to get started again!

I would be surprised if they want us to give two signals. I think it will be just like all the other fouls (raised fist followed by extended fist).

Z

[deecee]

the FED mechanics are funny -- raise open hand or fist to stop the clock -- however in acutality and practice the whistle stops the clock -- next time dont blow your whistle just raise your hands and see if the clock stops.

blow the whistle sell the call make your signal -- majority of charges are very close so sell the call. most calls fist goes up yes but in a charge I say just come out and sell the thing. trust me the clock will stop if your fist doesnt go up.

[JRutledge]

I think you need to talk to your local officials that would have an answer. Many times issues like these are not made clear by the NF. You will either have to wait until the books are made public, or until you have a chance to address this locally. Your local officials could come up with a system that would be acceptable by the people you work for. I have not heard of anyone in my area say either way. I think the key is to give the signal and let everyone know what type of foul you have. I was waiting for something concrete to be made clear and it never was.

Maybe the Michigan guys can tell us what they do. I would think most of us would not get books for a little over a month from now.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by deecee

the FED mechanics are funny -- raise open hand or fist to stop the clock -- however in acutality and practice the whistle stops the clock -- next time dont blow your whistle just raise your hands and see if the clock stops.

blow the whistle sell the call make your signal -- majority of charges are very close so sell the call. most calls fist goes up yes but in a charge I say just come out and sell the thing. trust me the clock will stop if your fist doesnt go up.

The danger in not raising your fist comes on a double-whistle. In that case, you may be selling the daylights out of your charge while your partner is signaling a travel. Or worse, a block.

I'm not saying never go straight to the signal; but be aware that occassionally it can bite you, and bite you hard.

[Jurassic Referee]

Lah me, it's been posted on the NFHS website for months. Look under "Comments On The 2006-07 Bassketball Rules Revisions". That sez:

"A new signal has been added for a team control foul. The arm is extended forward and the fist is punched.......The player control foul signal has not changed. BOTH SIGNALS SHOULD BE PRECEDED BY THE STOP CLOCK FOR A FOUL SIGNAL(ARM EXTENDED OVER HEAD WITH CLOSED FIST).

It's not recommended to ignore official signals and do things your own way, unless you're a big dawg and can get away with it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by zebraman

I would be surprised if they want us to give two signals. I think it will be just like all the other fouls (raised fist followed by extended fist).

Z

Z be right.

[Brad]

In our training meeting the other day they said that you should signal the team control foul first. Then, if you want to, you can signal the additional signal - push, etc.

Personally, I'm going with the team control signal and that's it - why complicate things?

I actually didn't think that we needed a new signal at all. A team control foul is not a new foul - there is just a new penalty. Why can't we still just signal illegal screen, push, block, etc. and just report it and go on? Just my $0.02

And I agree on raising your hand - you have to do that to avoid blarge situations - otherwise you are setting yourself up because it will happen to you eventually!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

The danger in not raising your fist comes on a double-whistle. In that case, you may be selling the daylights out of your charge while your partner is signaling a travel. Or worse, a block.

I'm not saying never go straight to the signal; but be aware that occassionally it can bite you, and bite you hard.

OK, I'll say it. Don't go straight to the team control foul signal, for the exact reason given above by BITS.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Brad

In our training meeting the other day they said that you should signal the team control foul first. Then, if you want to, you can signal the additional signal - push, etc.

Personally, I'm going with the team control signal and that's it - why complicate things?

I actually didn't think that we needed a new signal at all. A team control foul is not a new foul - there is just a new penalty. Why can't we still just signal illegal screen, push, block, etc. and just report it and go on? Just my $0.02

I disagree with you, to a degree, on both points. And in both cases, it's about communication. Giving a secondary signal can head off questions from coaches. Team control fouls are usually off-ball calls and leave most people wondering what just happened. A secondary signal can answer the coaches' questions without any further interaction.

The new signal will, I think, clear up confusion about why we're not shooting free throws in certain circumstances. People will begin to associate the punch with no free throws they way they currently associate the PC signal. Especially idiot scorekeepers who aren't paying full attention anyway.

I realize that neither argument is entirely compelling. But I've found that better an official communicates, the less trouble he has. Usually.

[CLH]

speaking only for Texas, we were told at one of Tony's camps that in high school games this year we will use the the punch for ALL team control fouls including player controls. This came courtesy of Ronnie Giraurd (spelling). Not a big change for me I have been using the punch for awhile, yes I know its not by the book, but I looked so cool,

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

The new signal will, I think, clear up confusion about why we're not shooting free throws in certain circumstances. People will begin to associate the punch with no free throws they way they currently associate the PC signal. Especially idiot scorekeepers who aren't paying full attention anyway.

I realize that neither argument is entirely compelling. But I've found that better an official communicates, the less trouble he has. Usually.

All I could hypothesize is that alot of NFHS rules trickle down from the NCAA (which gets some trickle down from NBA).

NBA, NCAA-W, and now NF use the punch for TC. (FIBA too, for that matter). It's just a universal way to communicate an off the ball foul*.

-

* or a foul during an interrupted dribble for NCAA-W and NF

[Nevadaref]

I would expect the details of this new mechanic to show up in the pre-season guide the NFHS publishes each year. There are always those mechani-grams and playpics that show us exactly what the NFHS wants.

Along those lines, and I don't know if it will appear the same way in the NFHS guide or not, the July issue of that other magazine has a playpic for the sequence of signals to be given on a team-control foul. It is on page 72 and has FOUR parts.
1. One-hand fist to indicate foul
2. Punch signal to designate team-control foul
3. Preliminary signal to indicate nature of foul (in this case, pushing)
4. Indicate spot for the designate-spot throw-in

That is what I am doing until I see something from the NFHS.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I would expect the details of this new mechanic to show up in the pre-season guide the NFHS publishes each year. There are always those mechani-grams and playpics that show us exactly what the NFHS wants.

Along those lines, and I don't know if it will appear the same way in the NFHS guide or not, the July issue of that other magazine has a playpic for the sequence of signals to be given on a team-control foul. It is on page 72 and has FOUR parts.
1. One-hand fist to indicate foul
2. Punch signal to designate team-control foul
3. Preliminary signal to indicate nature of foul (in this case, pushing)
4. Indicate spot for the designate-spot throw-in

That is what I am doing until I see something from the NFHS.

DISCLAIMER

Nothing from Referee magazine is official or approved, whether it is a rules interpretation or a mechanic. Referee aamof is noted for making mistakes. The only "official" interpretations and mechanics are those issued by the NFHS or it's appointed state representative. Similarly, any approved NCAA rules interpretations and mechanics are those that are issued by the NCAA only.

Referee is a good mag, but be very leary of any rules interpretations or mechanics it may print.

Geeze, Nevada, I thought that you knew better than that.

[NICK]

If it is any help, refereeing to Fiba rules, this is the sequence we use for the foul by the offensive team:
1) foul signal followed by the punch pointing the direction where the play is to go.
2) advise the scorebench of the fouler, etc. ending again with the punch pointing the direction of play.
3) this is to let everybody know that this is a foul by the offensive team and that there will be no shots.
Cheers