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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 18, 2000, 12:22pm
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Hello... This is a new to me, as is officiating. I am in my 2nd year of offictitating.) My Mentor could not clearly and decisively explain how team control has application to a game situation. Anyone willing to clarify this for me?

Thanks
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Old Sat Nov 18, 2000, 12:50pm
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Cool Team Control

What do you need to be explained? Team control is very easy to understand if you look at the "Definition" section of the rulebook. Basically team control never changes until the defense takes it away by stealing the ball or the offense shooting the ball. But the rulebook explains all the situations a team remains in control, as related to the rulebook.


Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Hello... This is a new to me, as is officiating. I am in my 2nd year of offictitating.) My Mentor could not clearly and decisively explain how team control has application to a game situation. Anyone willing to clarify this for me?

Thanks
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Old Sat Nov 18, 2000, 01:08pm
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Give us a game situation and I'm sure that there will be plenty on this board willing to help!
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Old Sat Nov 18, 2000, 02:01pm
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Williebfree:
2 instances where team control is important quickly come to mind.

First is the never ending discussion here about over-and-back violations. Knowing team control is essential in getting this call correct.

Second would be an inadvertent whistle. Knowing who has team control (if anyone) when we make this mistake is required to get it right.

  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 18, 2000, 05:59pm
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Definition per HS Rule Book

Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Hello... This is a new to me, as is officiating. I am in my 2nd year of offictitating.) My Mentor could not clearly and decisively explain how team control has application to a game situation. Anyone willing to clarify this for me?

Thanks
Rule 4 Section 12 Control, Player and Team

Art.1...A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. There is no player control during an interupted dribble.

Art.2...A team is in control of the ball when a player of the team is in control, while a live ball is being passed among teammates and during an interupted dribble.

Art.3...Team control continues until
a. The ball is in flight during a try ot tap for goal.
b. An opponent secures control.
c. The ball becomes dead.

Art.4...While the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap for goal.

Art.5...Team control does not exist during a jump ball or the touching of a rebound, but is re-established when a player secures control.

Art.6...Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball, throw-in, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try ot tap for goal.
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Old Sat Nov 18, 2000, 10:46pm
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THANKS...

I feel more comfortable about the definition... I have viewed the rule book and feel I have a better understanding....

Team Control is "inherent" with player control... However, you can also have team control WITHOUT player control. For example, while a pass is airborne between teammates.
This is a correct interpretation?
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Old Sat Nov 18, 2000, 11:01pm
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Thumbs up Re: THANKS...

Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
I feel more comfortable about the definition... I have viewed the rule book and feel I have a better understanding....

Team Control is "inherent" with player control... However, you can also have team control WITHOUT player control. For example, while a pass is airborne between teammates.
This is a correct interpretation?
willie,
Now you're cookin'! Blow that whistle!
mick
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 19, 2000, 11:59am
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More confused

Now I am more confused regarding team control. 1. A2 in the front court has his pass tipped by b2 into the back court. Team control has not changed, yet we allow a2 to recover the ball in the back court without violating. 2.A3 while holding the ball in his lane for 2 seconds has the ball tipped away.Players scamble for the ball. Team control has not changed, yet don't we end the 3 second count on this loose ball until a A player has regained posession.
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Old Sun Nov 19, 2000, 12:42pm
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Re: More confused

Quote:
Originally posted by mperlst216
Now I am more confused regarding team control. 1. A2 in the front court has his pass tipped by b2 into the back court. Team control has not changed, yet we allow a2 to recover the ball in the back court without violating. 2.A3 while holding the ball in his lane for 2 seconds has the ball tipped away.Players scamble for the ball. Team control has not changed, yet don't we end the 3 second count on this loose ball until a A player has regained posession.
1.> that's because B2 was last to touch the ball in the front court, by rule

2.> three second count should continue by rule.
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Old Sun Nov 19, 2000, 03:12pm
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Thumbs up Team Control

I'm with you Mick.
Great Call!
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 19, 2000, 05:42pm
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Re: More confused

Quote:
Originally posted by mperlst216
Now I am more confused regarding team control. 1. A2 in the front court has his pass tipped by b2 into the back court. Team control has not changed, yet we allow a2 to recover the ball in the back court without violating.
Yes, we do. Why shouldn't we? B was the last team to touch the ball in the FC. Why should A be denied an opportunity to recover the ball?


2.A3 while holding the ball in his lane for 2 seconds has the ball tipped away.Players scamble for the ball. Team control has not changed, yet don't we end the 3 second count on this loose ball until a A player has regained posession. [/QUOTE]

No, we don't end the count on a loose ball. We end the count on an interrutped dribble. There's the difference.
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 19, 2000, 09:09pm
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Lightbulb Typical of you!!!!

Why should that even suprise me, you would say something really silly like that. That is what I am talking about, you are more concerned the details of the rule instead of using a little common sense. Typical of you Mr. TH!!!! There is a difference but officials like yourself cannot live without the details.


Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by mperlst216
Now I am more confused regarding team control. 1. A2 in the front court has his pass tipped by b2 into the back court. Team control has not changed, yet we allow a2 to recover the ball in the back court without violating.
Yes, we do. Why shouldn't we? B was the last team to touch the ball in the FC. Why should A be denied an opportunity to recover the ball?


2.A3 while holding the ball in his lane for 2 seconds has the ball tipped away.Players scamble for the ball. Team control has not changed, yet don't we end the 3 second count on this loose ball until a A player has regained posession.


No, we don't end the count on a loose ball. We end the count on an interrutped dribble. There's the difference.
[/QUOTE]
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 20, 2000, 12:07pm
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Re: Typical of you!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Why should that even suprise me, you would say something really silly like that. That is what I am talking about, you are more concerned the details of the rule instead of using a little common sense. Typical of you Mr. TH!!!! There is a difference but officials like yourself cannot live without the details.
If you're going to flame me Rut, at least tell me what I posted that you didn't like. This is "typical of you."

If you're refering to the three seconds situation, I was explaining the rule to mperlst216. I wasn't discussing the philosophy of whether you're going to actually call it or not, I was simply explaining the rule to someone who, like you, is confused by it.

By rule, the count continues, but I've never called three seconds in this situation and probably never will.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving!
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 20, 2000, 02:23pm
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Re: Re: Typical of you!!!!

I am not flaming you, I am telling you how it is. You spend most of your time worried about what I think instead of worrying about what you think and know. My only beef with you is that you seem so upset with me because I am not like you. That is not flaming you by telling you where I stand. I did not call you names, I do not feel that you are a stupid person, and I really do not care what you think as it relates to me. You live in North Carolina, nuf said!!!! If what you do make you happy and the people you work with and for are happy, then why do you really care what I do or think. The form that the IHSA gives out to clinicians in the state to evaluate officials, "rules knowledge" is only a small part of that. The rest has to do with everything else that we do as officials. And I have never been questioned on my rules knowledge, but I have been questioned on my positioning, my hand signals or even my table mechanics. Funny, never had rules knowledge become a factor. Judgement question a couple of times, but that is what happens in camps. They do not give you rules test, and even during "Rules Meetings," Rules Interpreters cannot even agree on what the changes mean. I have been to three rules meetings this year, each Interpreter had a different slant on the Intentional foul rule. Now you tell me what is right and what is wrong.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 20, 2000, 05:57pm
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That's the beauty of basketball! Applying rules knowledge in a common sense way to make sure the game is smooth, and the best team wins. We must study the rule book, and know the rules, in order to fall back on them when "tricky" situations arise, i.e. correctable error. I agree with JR in a majority of officiating is mechanics, positioning, and judgement. However, in order to develope judgement, we must first lay the foundation of rules knowlegde. Judgement, good or bad, comes out and is sharpened by game time situations.
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