officials error

[mdray]

From last year's refresher test: (I still don't get this one!)
A1 is awarded one free throw but the official erroneously tells the players that A1 will shoot two free throws. A1's first attempt is missed. A2 grabs the rebound and scores as the other players make no attempt to rebound the ball. After conferring, the officials count the basket. Were the officials correct? Answer key says NO. So what's the correct next step? Cancel the score and use the arrow?

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by mdray
From last year's refresher test: (I still don't get this one!)
A1 is awarded one free throw but the official erroneously tells the players that A1 will shoot two free throws. A1's first attempt is missed. A2 grabs the rebound and scores as the other players make no attempt to rebound the ball. After conferring, the officials count the basket. Were the officials correct? Answer key says NO. So what's the correct next step? Cancel the score and use the arrow?

I beleive we discussed this last year.
Since none of the defenders attempted to rebound, per the officials instructions, the defenders were put at a disadvantage.
Cancel the bucket and go to the arrow.

[BktBallRef]

Correct.

[betweenthelines]

NCAA Rule 2-10 Art 3
When the error is a free throw by the wrong player, a free throw attempted at the wrong basket or the awarding of an unmerited free throw, the free throw and the activity during it, other than a flagrant technical foul, a flagrant personal foul, (men) an intentional technical foul, n intentional personal soul or an indirect or direct technical foul, shall be canceled.
a. Points scored, time consumed and additional activity, which may occur before the recogniton of the error, shall not be nullified.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by betweenthelines
NCAA Rule 2-10 Art 3
When the error is a free throw by the wrong player, a free throw attempted at the wrong basket or the awarding of an unmerited free throw, the free throw and the activity during it, other than a flagrant technical foul, a flagrant personal foul, (men) an intentional technical foul, n intentional personal soul or an indirect or direct technical foul, shall be canceled.
a. Points scored, time consumed and additional activity, which may occur before the recogniton of the error, shall not be nullified.

Unfortunately, the error in this situation ISN'T a free throw by the wrong player, a free throw attempted at the wrong basket or the awarding of an unmerited free throw, so the NCAA rule that you cited is neither germane or applicable. Neither are any of the correctable error situations outlined in NFHS 2-10-1 either. This isn't a correctable error situation; it's an official's error situation.

[betweenthelines]

"A1 is awarded one free throw but the official erroneously tells the players that A1 will shoot two free throws."

That clause in the sceniro makes it a correctible error. I think you need to brush up on 2-10. Read both 2-10in the NCAA and NFHS rule book. It is spelt out very simple in the NCAA book. The official awarded an "unmerited free throw" by telling them two throws.it applies here

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by betweenthelines
"A1 is awarded one free throw but the official erroneously tells the players that A1 will shoot two free throws."

That clause in the sceniro makes it a correctible error. I think you need to brush up on 2-10. Read both 2-10in the NCAA and NFHS rule book. It is spelt out very simple in the NCAA book. The official awarded an "unmerited free throw" by telling them two throws.it applies here

I think that you need to brush up on your understanding of rule book terminology. There sureashell WASN"T an unmerited FT taken. The FT that was taken was the FIRST FT. Whether its 1/1 or 2 shots, you're ALWAYS gonna legally get that first FT- so there's NO way that it can be called unmerited.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I think that you need to brush up on your understanding of rule book terminology. There sureashell WASN"T an unmerited FT taken. The FT that was taken was the FIRST FT. Whether its 1/1 or 2 shots, you're ALWAYS gonna legally get that first FT- so there's NO way that it can be called unmerited.

It sounds like b.t.l. thinks that by saying "two shots" the official is awarding two shots, so it appears that the second one has already been awarded. I admit, this is a beguiling interpretation, because it makes 2.10 applicable, but I'm with you, Woody, that I don't think it works out. There's no way to interpret 2.10 to come up with a reasonable procedure for correcting. Besides, BktBallRef already said that a different procedure was correct.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by betweenthelines
"A1 is awarded one free throw but the official erroneously tells the players that A1 will shoot two free throws."

That clause in the sceniro makes it a correctible error. I think you need to brush up on 2-10. Read both 2-10in the NCAA and NFHS rule book. It is spelt out very simple in the NCAA book. The official awarded an "unmerited free throw" by telling them two throws.it applies here

Awarded means that the FT was actually taken. You can't correct a FT that wasn't attempted.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rainmaker
[/B]

Besides, BktBallRef already said that a different procedure was correct. [/B][/QUOTE]Tony was referring to case book play 8.6.1(b), which is almost identical. The only difference is that A2 scores in the play above before the official blew it dead. The discussion that we had, if I remember right, was whether we actually could cancel the basket in that particular case.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Besides, BktBallRef already said that a different procedure was correct. [/B]

Tony was referring to case book play 8.6.1(b), which is almost identical. The only difference is that A2 scores in the play above before the official blew it dead. The discussion that we had, if I remember right, was whether we actually could cancel the basket in that particular case. [/B][/QUOTE]

And Tony thinks we decided we could. DO you disagree?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Tony was referring to case book play 8.6.1(b), which is almost identical. The only difference is that A2 scores in the play above before the official blew it dead. The discussion that we had, if I remember right, was whether we actually could cancel the basket in that particular case. [/B]

And Tony thinks we decided we could. DO you disagree? [/B][/QUOTE]I think that the consensus at that time was that that was the fair thing to do, and that was the purpose and intent of the case book play anyway. I could be remembering wrong though.

[cmathews]

Originally posted by betweenthelines
"A1 is awarded one free throw but the official erroneously tells the players that A1 will shoot two free throws."

That clause in the sceniro makes it a correctible error. I think you need to brush up on 2-10. Read both 2-10in the NCAA and NFHS rule book. It is spelt out very simple in the NCAA book. The official awarded an "unmerited free throw" by telling them two throws.it applies here

BTL, take this for what it is worth, comments like this aren't the best way to discuss things on this board...especially when they are directed at a guy with over 4900 posts, most of which are usually right on the money...everyone on this board is happy to discuss things, and there are always disagreements, but caustic remarks like this certainly give you an uphill battle to having any meaningful discussions...

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Besides, BktBallRef already said that a different procedure was correct. [/B]

Tony was referring to case book play 8.6.1(b), which is almost identical. The only difference is that A2 scores in the play above before the official blew it dead. The discussion that we had, if I remember right, was whether we actually could cancel the basket in that particular case. [/B][/QUOTE]

I did? I was? LOL! I thought all I did was to agree with Rookiedude (first time for everything) that he was correct.

BTW, WTF is this BTL dude? Hey BTL dude, awarding a FT erroneously means that the player shot the FT and shouldn't have. Awarding a FT does not mean you told him to shoot 2 and he didn't.

Get your head out of your butt and you can learn something here.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Tony was referring to case book play 8.6.1(b), which is almost identical. The only difference is that A2 scores in the play above before the official blew it dead. The discussion that we had, if I remember right, was whether we actually could cancel the basket in that particular case. [/B]

I did? I was? LOL! I thought all I did was to agree with Rookiedude (first time for everything) that he was correct.

[/B][/QUOTE]It's true what they say about "assuming". I shoulda known better.

Then what rules citation would you use to agree with RD? I can't think of another one offhand. It ain't a correctable error, so I'm not sure how you can justify cancelling the made basket.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Nov 14th, 2004 at 02:45 PM]