inadvertant shistle

[dhodges007]

I think you would treat this situation just like you were in a gym with multiple courts. Players stop because of a whistle from another court, then stop play and resume play where the action was stopped. Of course I agree -- no T. So I would also wave off the basket and give it to the kids on the side line. It seems that due to the "inadvertant" shistle that there was a definate disadvantage to the defense.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Basketball Rule Fundamentals (FED rulebook, pg. 77):

#16. The official's whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead).

True...knew that and don't disagree with that at all (not sure what it has to do with my question, tho)...but where do you get support for stopping the play, having a conversation in which the coach says he/she whistled to get players attention, and THEN deciding that we will take away the points AND T the coach???? If you hit the whistle as soon as you hear the coach's whistle and signal the T right away, I might be fooled into thinking you knew what you were doing (for a little while anyway)...that's what I meant by "buying" it...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Basketball Rule Fundamentals (FED rulebook, pg. 77):

#16. The official's whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead).

Aw damn,Chuck. LOL. Now MTD's liable to try and use that one too.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Aw damn,Chuck. LOL. Now MTD's liable to try and use that one too.

Shoulda turned the "devil's advocate" font back on!! Sorry!

[Hawks Coach]

We gave up a lay-up to a team that had six players on the court and we were in man. Ref noticed after bucket was scored. The tech was for too many players, the points count because it was only addressed after the bucket.

Not sure why this is different. If coach had whistled and everybody played on, you call nothing. Coach whistled, player drives past a lax defense, points are scored, and you go, "oh dexter!" and feel you have to do something about it. Discussion, T.

So I guess you can use the rules to argue either point.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
We gave up a lay-up to a team that had six players on the court and we were in man. Ref noticed after bucket was scored. The tech was for too many players, the points count because it was only addressed after the bucket.

Not sure why this is different. If coach had whistled and everybody played on, you call nothing. Coach whistled, player drives past a lax defense, points are scored, and you go, "oh dexter!" and feel you have to do something about it. Discussion, T.

So I guess you can use the rules to argue either point.

All that matters is when the event you are penalizing occurs.

Dribbler gets fouled, takes one dribble, picks up the ball and shoots. Then you blow the whistle for the foul. Either you wave off the shot or you declare an inadvertant whistle. He can't get the foul and the shot.

The same applies here. If a T is called at all, the shot can't be counted because the ball was already dead when the T occurred, not when the whistle is blown. If you don't call the T, however, the rules only support bucket counting since the ball was live. Fairness, however, suggests that perhaps it shouldn't.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
We gave up a lay-up to a team that had six players on the court and we were in man. Ref noticed after bucket was scored. The tech was for too many players, the points count because it was only addressed after the bucket.

Not sure why this is different. If coach had whistled and everybody played on, you call nothing. Coach whistled, player drives past a lax defense, points are scored, and you go, "oh dexter!" and feel you have to do something about it. Discussion, T.

So I guess you can use the rules to argue either point.

C'mon coach, you can do better than that! I T a coach who flops to the floor in obvious disgust at my partner's call and you give me grief for 2 pages, yet you're not gonna bust Mark for what is probably one of the most unjustifiable T's ever called in the history of the game!

Coaches have been whistling at their players since the game was invented. I've never heard of a coach being assessed a T for it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
[/B]

Coaches have been whistling at their players since the game was invented. I've never heard of a coach being assessed a T for it.
[/B][/QUOTE]Sure you have. At 8:23am this morning.

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
We gave up a lay-up to a team that had six players on the court and we were in man. Ref noticed after bucket was scored. The tech was for too many players, the points count because it was only addressed after the bucket.

Not sure why this is different. If coach had whistled and everybody played on, you call nothing. Coach whistled, player drives past a lax defense, points are scored, and you go, "oh dexter!" and feel you have to do something about it. Discussion, T.

So I guess you can use the rules to argue either point.

Coach, who says the ref made the right call? I would have disallowed the basket as a correctable error - erroneously counting a score. T should have been called right away (there were 6 players on the court), so the basket should not have counted. Offense has a definite advantage with 6 on 5. It would be no different than having one of the players on the bench run onto the court after the ball was put in play.

[RookieDude]

I agree with most here that a T on the Coach for whistling is a stretch...OK, "unjustifiable".
BUT, if it was in MTD's judgement that the whistle was indeed unsporting and the bucket was made because of this unsporting act, why not take the points off the board?

EXAMPLE:
If the Coach commited an unsporting act, such as throwing a chair on the court, and the defender had to dodge the flying chair thus, allowing the dribbler to make the basket...wouldn't you cancel the basket because of the unsporting act in this case?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by TravelinMan
Coach, who says the ref made the right call? I would have disallowed the basket as a correctable error - erroneously counting a score. T should have been called right away (there were 6 players on the court), so the basket should not have counted. Offense has a definite advantage with 6 on 5. It would be no different than having one of the players on the bench run onto the court after the ball was put in play.

Sure you would.

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by TravelinMan

Coach, who says the ref made the right call? I would have disallowed the basket as a correctable error - erroneously counting a score. T should have been called right away (there were 6 players on the court), so the basket should not have counted. Offense has a definite advantage with 6 on 5. It would be no different than having one of the players on the bench run onto the court after the ball was put in play.

How are you taking away the basket? What gives us the justification to do so? CB plays? I think you have to count the basket and give the T. But also, bad on the officials for not counting players before they handed the ball in.

I see a HUGE difference when a player runs on the court during a live ball. For one, it is more obvious; two, you can't do any preventive officiating. However, if I had a player run on the floor as a drive or shot was in progress, I am counting the basket (unless A6 just caught the pass and was shooting) then giving a T.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by dhodges007

How are you taking away the basket? What gives us the justification to do so? CB plays? I think you have to count the basket and give the T. But also, bad on the officials for not counting players before they handed the ball in.

I see a HUGE difference when a player runs on the court during a live ball. For one, it is more obvious; two, you can't do any preventive officiating. However, if I had a player run on the floor as a drive or shot was in progress, I am counting the basket (unless A6 just caught the pass and was shooting) then giving a T.

6 players on the floor...you can't wipe the basket. That is a T only when it is recognized by an official, not when it happened. That, as you said, it quite different than an unsportsmanlike act that happens at a specific instant and is penalized (except for ONE case) when it occurs.

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
I had a coach tonight that whistled to get his players attention. It never caused a real problem, but it could have. When he whistled about 6 players and at least one of us officials took a quick glance over there thinking it was an official's whistle.

1. Can we tell him to stop?
2. What if a player stops dribbling and travels with the ball because he thinks the whistle blew? Can we tell him to stop after that happens?

p.s. I got home tonight and saw Phil Jackson whistling too.

Excellent question.

Luckily I have not experienced a whistling coach. What I would probably do would depend on reaction of the players (almost like an inadvertant horn going during play). If the defense or offence stops playing in some way I may blow it dead and resume with a throw in from the closest spot out of bounds. I would not allow subs unless it were for an injured player.

If it were a coach whistling that interrupts a play, I might give the coach a warning. I say might because if he is interrupting a breakaway opportunity I most likely will whack him with a T.

If a player travelled because he thought the whistle went - blow it dead and give it back to his/her team.

Really how hard is it to use hand signals to call specific offences/defences. I think my University coach had coloured pieces of construction paper for calling the Blue or Green defences.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by cingram
[/B]

Luckily I have not experienced a whistling coach. What I would probably do would depend on reaction of the players (almost like an inadvertant horn going during play). If the defense or offence stops playing in some way I may blow it dead and resume with a throw in from the closest spot out of bounds. I would not allow subs unless it were for an injured player.


If a player travelled because he thought the whistle went - blow it dead and give it back to his/her team.

[/B][/QUOTE]What rule are you using to back up either of these proposed actions?