inadvertant shistle

[lrpalmer3]

I had a coach tonight that whistled to get his players attention. It never caused a real problem, but it could have. When he whistled about 6 players and at least one of us officials took a quick glance over there thinking it was an official's whistle.

1. Can we tell him to stop?
2. What if a player stops dribbling and travels with the ball because he thinks the whistle blew? Can we tell him to stop after that happens?

p.s. I got home tonight and saw Phil Jackson whistling too.

[BktBallRef]

What's a shistle?

Phil has been whistling since 1989.

Leave the coach alone.

[Nevadaref]

I would guess that all involved could tell the difference between the coach's whistle and a Fox 40.
It shouldn't be a problem.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The frist time the coach whistled to get his players attention I would put a stop to it right then and there. Why? Personal experience.

Four years ago, I am officiating a boys' H.S. varsity game in Michigan. We are in the second quarter of a close game. I am the T (table side) and A1 has the ball at the top of the key. Coach A whistle's very loudly (there was not that big of a crowd because it was a Christmas Holiday tournament with four small Christian schools playing). The whistle took me by suprise, but more importantly, the Team B players relaxed for a moment because they thought that my partner or I had sounded our whistle, and A1 blew past his defender for a lay-up. My partner looked at me with that "what the hell just happened" look and we stopped the game immediately. Thats when Coach A admitted that he always whistles to get his players attention, but my partner and I were not buying that excuse. We disallowed the layup and T'd up the coach for unsportsmanlike conduct.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
The frist time the coach whistled to get his players attention I would put a stop to it right then and there. Why? Personal experience.

Four years ago, I am officiating a boys' H.S. varsity game in Michigan. We are in the second quarter of a close game. I am the T (table side) and A1 has the ball at the top of the key. Coach A whistle's very loudly (there was not that big of a crowd because it was a Christmas Holiday tournament with four small Christian schools playing). The whistle took me by suprise, but more importantly, the Team B players relaxed for a moment because they thought that my partner or I had sounded our whistle, and A1 blew past his defender for a lay-up. My partner looked at me with that "what the hell just happened" look and we stopped the game immediately. Thats when Coach A admitted that he always whistles to get his players attention, but my partner and I were not buying that excuse. We disallowed the layup and T'd up the coach for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Uhmmmm...just wondering what rule you used to justify those actions, and why you would not only take points off the board but also T the coach...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rockyroad

Uhmmmm...just wondering what rule you used to justify those actions, and why you would not only take points off the board but also T the coach...

Well, Rocky, Mark can always justify the T under Rule 10-4-1 by saying "In my, MTD Sr's opinion, that is an unsporting act". It doesn't matter if there isn't another official in the Free World that would agree that it was an unsporting act, he does have that leeway the way that R10-4-1 is written. It was written to leave what an "unsporting act" may also be, other than the examples listed, up to the calling official. Iow, you can second-guess his judgement( which I certainly do also), but he does have the right, by rule, to call a T if he wants. Like you say, though, there is no rule in the the book that I know of that would then allow him to take the basket away when the whistle was blown AFTER it was scored. Mark, exactly what rule did you use to take away the points?

[lrpalmer3]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Mark, exactly what rule did you use to take away the points?

There's a rule about the officials making judgements on situations not covered in the rulebook. An official can always bail him/herself out with that one.

In my original situation though, the coach was not doing it to purposely trick anyone, becuase he was calling play after play that way. And he mainly did it in the first half when his team was shooting at the other basket.

I would like to see a rule in the book about this (but who am I). What about a fan blowing a whistle with 1 second on the clock and everyone stops? You can T the team who the fan is supporting, but what if the fan shows to partiality?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by lrpalmer3

There's a rule about the officials making judgements on situations not covered in the rulebook. An official can always bail him/herself out with that one.

Uh,no, you can't use R2-3 (the rule that you are referring to) if it negates a rule that is already in the rule book. You can only use R2-3 if there actually is NO rule covering the play. Rule 5-1-1 says "A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through". That's exactly what happened in MTD Sr.'s case, isn't it? How can you now say that that play isn't covered in the rules? Correctible errors, under R2-10, aren't applicable in that case either. If you want to take the basket away, you better have a rule that will back up your doing so. There isn't a rule that will do that.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 9th, 2004 at 12:08 PM]

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Well, Rocky, Mark can always justify the T under Rule 10-4-1 by saying "In my, MTD Sr's opinion, that is an unsporting act". It doesn't matter if there isn't another official in the Free World that would agree that it was an unsporting act, he does have that leeway the way that R10-4-1 is written. It was written to leave what an "unsporting act" may also be, other than the examples listed, up to the calling official. Iow, you can second-guess his judgement( which I certainly do also), but he does have the right, by rule, to call a T if he wants. Like you say, though, there is no rule in the the book that I know of that would then allow him to take the basket away when the whistle was blown AFTER it was scored. Mark, exactly what rule did you use to take away the points?

Yeah, I get the 10-4-1 part (although that's a MAJOR strrrrrreeeettttccchhhh), but not sure how they justify double-thumping the team by taking away the basket AND whacking the coach...and btw, JR, I still hate Roger Clemens even tho he's not a Yank anymore....1-0 sucks...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rockyroad
[/B]

Yeah, I get the 10-4-1 part (although that's a MAJOR strrrrrreeeettttccchhhh), but not sure how they justify double-thumping the team by taking away the basket AND whacking the coach...and btw, JR, I still hate Roger Clemens even tho he's not a Yank anymore....1-0 sucks... [/B][/QUOTE]As you stated above, I agree completely with you that you can't justify taking away the basket. There just isn't a rule available that would allow you to do so. As for the T itself, imo there wasn't much common sense involved in that call. As for Clemens, I didn't like him when he was in Boston. Couldn't stand him in Toronto. Thought he was an a$$hole when he played for the Yankees, and my opinion of him as an Astro isn't really as high as my previous opinions. Roger cares about Roger- no one else. Big dextering phony! Him and David Wells made a great pair. The only good thing about Roger being in the NL is that he can't throw at people any more because he has to get up to bat himself.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Rule 5-1-1 says "A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through". That's exactly what happened in MTD Sr.'s case, isn't it?

[font = devil's advocate]Actually no, it's not. Since the coach's action was deemed to be unsportsmanlike, his action caused the ball to become dead. Therefore, even tho it passed thru the basket, no points are awarded.[/font]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

[font = devil's advocate]Actually no, it's not. Since the coach's action was deemed to be unsportsmanlike, his action caused the ball to become dead. Therefore, even tho it passed thru the basket, no points are awarded.[/font]

Got a rule to back that up, Mark Jr.?

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

[font = devil's advocate]Actually no, it's not. Since the coach's action was deemed to be unsportsmanlike, his action caused the ball to become dead. Therefore, even tho it passed thru the basket, no points are awarded.[/font]

You know, I might buy that if they blew the whistle and waved the basket off right away...but that's not what happened. They had a conversation between themselves and the coach,and THEN decided to disallow the points and T the coach...so not buying that either...and Rger can't PITCH at anyone anymore, but can he still throw pieces of bats at people????

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by rockyroad

You know, I might buy that if they blew the whistle and waved the basket off right away...but that's not what happened. They had a conversation between themselves and the coach,and THEN decided to disallow the points and T the coach...so not buying that either...and Rger can't PITCH at anyone anymore, but can he still throw pieces of bats at people????

Still, the action which caused the whole incident kills the ball even if the whistle is late and even if the refs have to talk about it first. If you were to consider this a T for unsportsmanlike conduct and it truly disadvantaged the defense, how could you permit the points to be scored? Late whistles don't mean a late dead ball, just that the ref was slow signaling it.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rockyroad
You know, I might buy that if they blew the whistle and waved the basket off right away...

Basketball Rule Fundamentals (FED rulebook, pg. 77):

#16. The official's whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead).