Violation?

[thumpferee]

Player A1 has the ball near the mid court line in team A's BC. A1 attempts to make a pass to A2 in the FC but the ball slips out of his hand and bounces in the FC, after which A1 grabs the ball.

BC?

Does the 10 sec count stop?

Continue 10 sec count?

Start a new 10 sec count?

Nothing?

[Raymond]

I'm trying figure out how one would think this is not a BC violation.

[BillyMac]

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control when coming from a throwin); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after the ball has been in the backcourt.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

Player A1 has the ball near the mid court line in team A's BC. A1 attempts to make a pass to A2 in the FC but the ball slips out of his hand and bounces in the FC, after which A1 grabs the ball.

BC?

Does the 10 sec count stop?

Continue 10 sec count?

Start a new 10 sec count?

Nothing?

Yes, this is a BC violation as the action was not a dribble. As you have stated that the ball slipped out of A1’s hand, this meets the definition of a fumble and the play violates 9-9-2.
The 10 second count does cease when the ball strikes the floor in the front court for the same reason above—this is not a dribble.

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I'm trying figure out how one would think this is not a BC violation.

You'd be surprised!

Appreciate the responses!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I'm trying figure out how one would think this is not a BC violation.

Based on discussions that I've witnessed in some of my Refresher Exam study groups, because the ball never touched an offensive player in the frontcourt.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yes, this is a BC violation as the action was not a dribble ...

... thus 4-4-6 does not come into play.

4-4-6: Ball Location: During a dribble from backcourt to frontcourt, the ball is in the frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the dribbler touch the court entirely in the frontcourt.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I'm trying figure out how one would think this is not a BC violation.

Due to an improper understanding of 4-4-6?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yes, this is a BC violation as the action was not a dribble. As you have stated that the ball slipped out of A1’s hand, this meets the definition of a fumble and the play violates 9-9-2.
The 10 second count does cease when the ball strikes the floor in the front court for the same reason above—this is not a dribble.

I agree with everything you said except the 10 Second Count. Once the fumbled Ball touched in Team A's Front Court the 10 Second ended.

MTD, Sr.

[rbruno]

Am I not understanding this correctly? A-1 is in his backcourt and fumbles into his frontcourt where he picks up the ball. How can this be a backcourt violation? He is the only one who touched it in both back and front court. All this is from what I read is a fumble. He just can't dribble after he picks it up and I believe he loses his pivot foot.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rbruno

Am I not understanding this correctly? A-1 is in his backcourt and fumbles into his frontcourt where he picks up the ball. How can this be a backcourt violation? He is the only one who touched it in both back and front court. All this is from what I read is a fumble. He just can't dribble after he picks it up and I believe he loses his pivot foot.

He is standing in his backcourt. Therefore, when he recovers the ball after the fumble, it returns to the backcourt.

PS A fumble has no impact upon traveling or the use of a pivot foot.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rbruno

Am I not understanding this correctly? A-1 is in his backcourt and fumbles into his frontcourt where he picks up the ball. How can this be a backcourt violation? He is the only one who touched it in both back and front court. All this is from what I read is a fumble. He just can't dribble after he picks it up and I believe he loses his pivot foot.

It's not a dribble. So when he fumbles the ball into the front court the ball then has front court status. When he touches the ball again while standing in the back court, the ball then has BC status.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It's not a dribble. So when he fumbles the ball into the front court the ball then has front court status. When he touches the ball again while standing in the back court, the ball then has BC status.

Agree.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A1 receives a pass from a teammate while both are in in A1's backcourt. A1 catches the ball then throws the ball across the plane of the division line with backspin such the ball hits the floor in the frontcourt, and bounces back toward A1, who catches the ball while A1 is still in his backcourt. I've got backcourt? Am I wrong? The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control when coming from a throwin); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after the ball has been in the backcourt.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You are correct in this interp

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A1 receives a pass from a teammate while both are in in A1's backcourt. A1 catches the ball then throws the ball across the plane of the division line with backspin such the ball hits the floor in the frontcourt, and bounces back toward A1, who catches the ball while A1 is still in his backcourt. I've got backcourt? Am I wrong? The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control when coming from a throwin); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after the ball has been in the backcourt.

Wait a minute?

Unlike a fumble, is this considered a dribble, and as such does the "three points" (two feet and the ball) rule apply, thus no backcourt?

What if it was was a real un-intentional fumble (muff) after catching a pass, where the start of a dribble would normally be perfectly legal?

Would that also be considered a "dribble" (knowing that another (real) dribble would be legal?), and as such does the "three points" (two feet and the ball) rule apply, thus no backcourt?

I understand that a fumble after one ends one's dribble would be backcourt because the "three points" (two feet and the ball) rule would not apply.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Wait a minute?

Unlike a fumble, is this considered a dribble, and as such does the "three points" (two feet and the ball) rule apply, thus no backcourt?

What if it was was a real un-intentional fumble (muff) after catching a pass, where the start of a dribble would normally be perfectly legal?

Would that also be considered a "dribble" (knowing that another (real) dribble would be legal?), and as such does the "three points" (two feet and the ball) rule apply, thus no backcourt?

I understand that a fumble after one ends one's dribble would be backcourt because the "three points" (two feet and the ball) rule would not apply.

That is a dribble and thus not a violation.