Ten Second Free Throw Violation ...

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Coaches and bench personnel counting out loud for anything other than the game/shot clock winding down or preventing their own team from getting a violation is attempting to influence an official and is not acceptable in my games. I have T'd a coach for his 3-second count; it was during a team camp.

Haven't had to address this coming from bench personnel /knocks on wood, but I did have to stop a throw-in and tell a 6th grade girl in a CYO game to knock that off when she counted "1-2-3-4-5" rather quickly when she was defending a throw-in as I judged it an attempt to disconcert the thrower-in into thinking she had or was about to commit a violation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

Haven't had to address this coming from bench personnel /knocks on wood, but I did have to stop a throw-in and tell a 6th grade girl in a CYO game to knock that off when she counted "1-2-3-4-5" rather quickly when she was defending a throw-in as I judged it an attempt to disconcert the thrower-in into thinking she had or was about to commit a violation.

I don’t agree. There is nothing illegal about distracting an opponent during a throw-in. Your only grounds for telling a counting player to stop is if you believe that it is an attempt to influence the official’s decision.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I don’t agree. There is nothing illegal about distracting an opponent during a throw-in. Your only grounds for telling a counting player to stop is if you believe that it is an attempt to influence the official’s decision.

Or, if you deem it to be unsportsmanlike conduct.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Or, if you deem it to be unsportsmanlike conduct.

I can’t agree with that take either. There is nothing unsporting about counting out loud while guarding an opponent. It’s the same as hollering, “Ball, ball, ball” or “Dead, dead, dead.” I’m of the opinion that it could only be penalized if it is deemed an attempt to influence the official.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... deem it to be unsportsmanlike conduct.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

There is nothing unsporting about counting out loud while guarding an opponent ... I’m of the opinion that it could only be penalized if it is deemed an attempt to influence the official.

I agree with both Camron Rust and Nevadaref.

Attempting to influence an official’s decision is, by definition, also an unsporting act.

I'm actually extrapolating, since it's unsporting for bench personnel, it's probably also unsporting for a player, based on "not limited to acts or conduct ...".

Good for goose. Good for gander.

10-5-B Bench personnel, including the head coach, must not commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: Attempting to influence an official’s decision.

10-4: A player must not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as …

The debate between Camron Rust and Nevadaref is a fine distinction of semantics.

If the official believes that the "counter" is trying to influence the official, it's definitely unsporting; but if the official believes that the "counter" is trying to influence the opponent, it's probably not unsporting.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

“Ball, ball, ball” or “Dead, dead, dead.”

In my personal opinion, there's no place for this (Nevadaref quote) in basketball, but as an experienced basketball official, I'm not touching this with a thirty-nine-and-a-half foot pole.

Maybe in my very last game ever, just to take a stand and die on that hill.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In my personal opinion, there's no place for this in basketball, but as an experienced basketball official, I'm not touching this with a thirty-nine-and-a-half foot pole. Maybe in my very last game ever, just to take a stand and die on that hill.

And, at the risk of being labeled a sexist, it's mostly girls, most guys wouldn't be caught dead yelling, “Ball, ball, ball”, or “Dead, dead, dead.”

Just sayin'.

[Robert Goodman]

I don't get it...what's shady in basketball about "ball, ball, ball" or "dead, dead, dead"? "Ball" could be a player on offense calling for the ball, or on defense indi cating either that s/he's covering ball or that they need someone else to cover ball. "Dead" could mean any number of things to a particular team.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

... tell a 6th grade girl in a CYO game to knock that off when she counted "1-2-3-4-5" rather quickly when she was defending a throw-in ...

I hope that you didn't make her cry.