Ten Second Free Throw Violation ...

[BillyMac]

The NBA told the Brooklyn Nets to stop displaying a timer on the scoreboard when Antetokounmpo was attempting free throws because the NBA decided that it didn't want teams inciting their fans to taunt opposing players. While I don't know much about the NBA, I'm sure that while the NBA can stop the scoreboard display, it probably can do little to stop fans from "counting down" on their own.

So let's move on to our NFHS high school games. Our state associations would probably frown upon such scoreboard displays, and site directors may, or may not (i.e, jeering during opponents free throws), want to control fans counting down, leaving little control by officials regarding such fan behavior.

So what can officials, the "Guardians of the game", control?

Players and bench personnel, including coaches. They are certainly under our control, but how much control?

What is the responsibility of a high school officials, under NFHS rules, controlling such counting down behavior from players and bench personnel, including coaches?

And not just ten second free throws, but also ten second backcourts, five second throwins, five second closely guarded, and three second lane counts.

Is counting down behavior from players and bench personnel, including coaches, any business of the officials?

Does any rule language (unsporting not limited to, attempting to influence an official’s decision, inciting undesirable crowd reactions, baiting, taunting; distract the free thrower) allow officials to intercede in such "counting down" situations with players and bench personnel, including coaches, even if it just a, "Cut that out", or is even that overreach and none of our damn business?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...

Does any rule language (unsporting not limited to, attempting to influence an official’s decision, inciting undesirable crowd reactions, baiting, taunting; distract the free thrower) allow officials to intercede in such "counting down" situations with players and bench personnel, including coaches, even if it just a, "Cut that out", or is even that overreach and none of our damn business?

Coaches and bench personnel counting out loud for anything other than the game/shot clock winding down or preventing their own team from getting a violation is attempting to influence an official and is not acceptable in my games. I have T'd a coach for his 3-second count; it was during a team camp.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Coaches and bench personnel counting out loud for anything other than the game/shot clock winding down or preventing their own team from getting a violation is attempting to influence an official and is not acceptable in my games. I have T'd a coach for his 3-second count; it was during a team camp.

Agree. Nice to see we have at least two "Guardians of the game" Forum members (I'm sure that we have more). I thought for sure that I would get a "Mind our own damn business", "Not our job", or "Overly officious officiating" reply (and still may).

[ilyazhito]

If a coach tells me to "Mind your own business" after I tell him to have his team stop counting for violations on the other team, he's getting a technical foul. First, he's attempting to influence an official's decision, and 2nd, he's addressing an official in a disrespectful manner.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Coaches and bench personnel counting out loud for anything other than the game/shot clock winding down or preventing their own team from getting a violation is attempting to influence an official and is not acceptable in my games. I have T'd a coach for his 3-second count; it was during a team camp.

Haven't had to address this coming from bench personnel /knocks on wood, but I did have to stop a throw-in and tell a 6th grade girl in a CYO game to knock that off when she counted "1-2-3-4-5" rather quickly when she was defending a throw-in as I judged it an attempt to disconcert the thrower-in into thinking she had or was about to commit a violation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

Haven't had to address this coming from bench personnel /knocks on wood, but I did have to stop a throw-in and tell a 6th grade girl in a CYO game to knock that off when she counted "1-2-3-4-5" rather quickly when she was defending a throw-in as I judged it an attempt to disconcert the thrower-in into thinking she had or was about to commit a violation.

I don’t agree. There is nothing illegal about distracting an opponent during a throw-in. Your only grounds for telling a counting player to stop is if you believe that it is an attempt to influence the official’s decision.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I don’t agree. There is nothing illegal about distracting an opponent during a throw-in. Your only grounds for telling a counting player to stop is if you believe that it is an attempt to influence the official’s decision.

Or, if you deem it to be unsportsmanlike conduct.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Or, if you deem it to be unsportsmanlike conduct.

I can’t agree with that take either. There is nothing unsporting about counting out loud while guarding an opponent. It’s the same as hollering, “Ball, ball, ball” or “Dead, dead, dead.” I’m of the opinion that it could only be penalized if it is deemed an attempt to influence the official.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... deem it to be unsportsmanlike conduct.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

There is nothing unsporting about counting out loud while guarding an opponent ... I’m of the opinion that it could only be penalized if it is deemed an attempt to influence the official.

I agree with both Camron Rust and Nevadaref.

Attempting to influence an official’s decision is, by definition, also an unsporting act.

I'm actually extrapolating, since it's unsporting for bench personnel, it's probably also unsporting for a player, based on "not limited to acts or conduct ...".

Good for goose. Good for gander.

10-5-B Bench personnel, including the head coach, must not commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: Attempting to influence an official’s decision.

10-4: A player must not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as …

The debate between Camron Rust and Nevadaref is a fine distinction of semantics.

If the official believes that the "counter" is trying to influence the official, it's definitely unsporting; but if the official believes that the "counter" is trying to influence the opponent, it's probably not unsporting.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

“Ball, ball, ball” or “Dead, dead, dead.”

In my personal opinion, there's no place for this (Nevadaref quote) in basketball, but as an experienced basketball official, I'm not touching this with a thirty-nine-and-a-half foot pole.

Maybe in my very last game ever, just to take a stand and die on that hill.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

... tell a 6th grade girl in a CYO game to knock that off when she counted "1-2-3-4-5" rather quickly when she was defending a throw-in ...

I hope that you didn't make her cry.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The NBA told the Brooklyn Nets to stop displaying a timer on the scoreboard when Antetokounmpo was attempting free throws because the NBA decided that it didn't want teams inciting their fans to taunt opposing players.

Like Bill Veeck's Pitchometer!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Like Bill Veeck's Pitchometer!

... and don't forget 3-foot-7 Eddie Gaedel coming to bat in uniform No. 1/8, "Grandstand Manager's Day", when fans could vote to implement in-game strategy by holding up placards, an exploding scoreboard at Comiskey Park, uniforms featuring players in short pants, and, best of all, the infamous 1979 "Disco Demolition Night," which resulted in a riot and a forfeit.