Free throw

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So we are basically guessing.

Of course we are (if we choose to do so), just don't answer that on a written exam, or use the word "guess" within hearing distance of an upset coach, or irate athletic director. They may later discover that the NFHS doesn't allow us (with one specific interpretation exception) to guess and it can come back to bite us in the butt.

“Never miss a good chance to shut up.” (Will Rogers)
"The things I did not say never hurt me." (Calvin Coolidge)

"Coach, I spotted 0:00.02 on the clock as I sounded my whistle" (BillyMac)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Of course we are (if we choose to do so), just don't answer that on a written exam, or use the word "guess" within hearing distance of an upset coach, or irate athletic director. They may later discover that the NFHS doesn't allow us (with one specific interpretation exception) to guess and it can come back to bite us in the butt.

“Never miss a good chance to shut up.” (Will Rogers)
"The things I did not say never hurt me." (Calvin Coolidge)

"Coach, I spotted 0:00.02 on the clock as I sounded my whistle" (BillyMac)

I do not work in a state that asks those silly NF questions. I am not talking about passing a test, I am talking about what is reality. Again that book can get you guys in trouble trying to use it without consideration of the real world. Yeah, you ask them table people and see if they give you honest and real answers. At least that would be suspect here.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again that book can get you guys in trouble trying to use it without consideration of the real world.

It's a double edged sword, cutting both ways. The rulebook can hurt us, but it can also help us.

My point is that if in an end of game, close score, situation, if an official admits to "guessing" within earshot of losing coaches or athletic directors, those coaches and directors will find out from one of their official buddies (they all have them) that "guessing' was not by the book (lots of rule, casebook, and interpretations to support that the official screwed up), which can come back to bite the official in the butt if the issue is bumped up the ladder to an assigner, or the state association.

Rather than admitting to "guessing", I'm saying to just say, "Coach, I spotted 0:00.02 on the clock as I sounded my whistle" (be firm, sell it, all good officials watch the clock in the last seconds of a period), after making your best judgment estimate in your mind, and then the actual rule can't hurt you.

[JRutledge]

I am simply talking about this situation. Not talking about every situation. I am not asking table people for information to decide the game without any conversation with my partners. That is not happening. You can do that, but I will not do that in this kind of situation.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not asking table people for information to decide the game without any conversation with my partners.

My hierarchy: Me first. Not sure? My partner second. Still not sure? Table officials (timekeeper, official scorekeeper, and visiting scorekeeper). Referee decides on credibility of table officials. Still not sure? Referee makes final decision, which may be based on:

2-13-4: If table officials disagree, the goal must count and/or the foul must be penalized, unless the referee has knowledge which alters such ruling.

2-5-5: The referee must: Decide matters upon which the scorer and timer disagree and correct obvious timing errors.

[ilyazhito]

Check your local listings. For varsity games, at least in some associations, the clock operator is also an official. If that is the case, the crew can consult with him (her) the same as with each other. If any doubt still remains, the goal will count and/or the foul will be penalized, unless there is definite information that alters the ruling. With reference to the OP, if the clock operator/official knows that time remains, he will consult with the referee and put time back on the clock (if the game clock does not use 10ths, 1 second, if it does, then whatever time he (and the calling official) had when the whistle was blown or foul signaled, whichever happened first).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... when the whistle was blown or foul signaled ...

Interesting reminder. Many non-officials would believe that the foul itself stops the clock (it only makes to ball dead in many circumstances).

5-8-1-A: Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, must be stopped when an official: Signals: A foul.

Note: It is my opinion that by "signal" a foul, the NFHS means that the "signal" can be audible, a whistle sounding; and/or an actual visual "stop the clock" (fist) signal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

With reference to the OP, if the clock operator/official knows that time remains, he will consult with the referee and put time back on the clock ...

Re-read the original post. There's no indication that an error, or a delay, occurred. Nor is there any indication that the automatic horn was turned off.

This is one of those extremely rare times in an officiating career when the clock shows all zeros, but the horn hasn't sounded. While no time shows on the scoreboard clock, more time does exist within the internal mechanism of the system. For a scoreboard that doesn't shows tenths of a second, the remaining time may be tenths of a second. For a scoreboard that shows tenths of a second, the remaining time may be hundredths of a second. Some modern consoles may show the split-second remaining time, other won't.

There is no NFHS rule that tells us to add time to the "scoreboard" clock in such circumstances. If the "scoreboard" clock can't show tenths of a second, then it can't show tenths of a second. If the "scoreboard" clock can't show hundredths of a second, then it can't show hundredths of a second. We don't "substitute" on the "scoreboard" clock a second for a tenth of a second, or a tenth of a second for an hundredth of a second. We just tell the coaches that there is a split second remaining (known, or unknown), and finish playing the period.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

My hierarchy: Me first. Not sure? My partner second. Still not sure? Table officials (timekeeper, official scorekeeper, and visiting scorekeeper). Referee decides on credibility of table officials. Still not sure? Referee makes final decision, which may be based on:

2-13-4: If table officials disagree, the goal must count and/or the foul must be penalized, unless the referee has knowledge which alters such ruling.

2-5-5: The referee must: Decide matters upon which the scorer and timer disagree and correct obvious timing errors.

Sounds wonderful on paper, but again I am not having the table people make a decision of the clock. If we have to do that, then we are not doing the right thing. They are clearly the last result and I stand by that position. I think the crew needs to know what is going on with the clock and make the proper decisions. Just the way I roll. Anyone here can default to anything they wish.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... table ... are clearly the last result ...

Unless the referee finds their information to be credible, they are not the last result (even then, it's not them, it's the referee finding them credible). The referee is the penultimate last result, and he may defer to the ultimate last result, the rulebook (the goal will count and/or the foul will be penalized).