Free throw

[JRutledge]

If the foul takes place before time expires, put time on the clock and put people on the line. If the foul takes place after the horn, then I guess you will not have anyone on the line (shot gone and foul before the shooter comes back to the floor). But in general, the foul when the time expires should have time put on the clock.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But in general, the foul when the time expires should have time put on the clock.

Citation please?

Official simultaneously sees a foul, sounds whistle, and observes a definite 0:00 on the clock, but no horn (the automatic horn was later found to be turned on (see above procedure)). No other definite knowledge regarding time, other than 0:00 on the clock, from anybody, partner, or table (nobody got a peek at 0:01 for example). With no definite knowledge, what rule allows one to put time back on he clock to shoot free throws in a high school game when there may be fractions of a second remaining in the game?

Note: The only interpenetration that allows time adjustments with no definite knowledge is about a clock that was erroneously turned on. There was no error involved in this play.

Basketball Rules Interpretations 2009-10 Situation 11: Team B scores a goal to take the lead by one point. A1 immediately requests and is granted a timeout with three seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. Following the time-out, Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. A1 passes the ball to A2, who is also outside the boundary; A2 passes the ball to A1 who is inbounds and running the length of the court. The timer mistakenly starts the clock when A2 touches A1’s pass while standing outside the boundary. An official notices the clock starting on A2’s touch (a), before A2 releases the throw-in pass to A1, (b), while A2’s throw-in pass is in flight to A1, or (c), as soon as A1 catches the throw-in pass. Ruling: This is an obvious timing mistake and may be corrected. In (a) and (b), the official shall blow the whistle, stop play and direct the timer to put three seconds on the game clock. Since the throw-in had not ended, play is resumed with a Team A throw-in from anywhere along the end line. In (c), the official may put the correct time on the clock, but must make some allowance for the touching by A1 – likely 10ths of a second, if displayed. The ball is put in play nearest to where it was located when the stoppage occurred to correct the timing mistake. A “do over” is not permitted in (c), since the throw-in had ended. (4-36; 5-10-1)

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If the foul takes place before time expires, put time on the clock and put people on the line....in general, the foul when the time expires should have time put on the clock.

JRut, love your work, but please specify when you’re talking about NCAA rules and case philosophy to a crowd mostly composed of NFHS officials. There is no case or rule support in the NFHS domain for what you suggest.


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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

JRut, love your work, but please specify when you’re talking about NCAA rules and case philosophy to a crowd mostly composed of NFHS officials. There is no case or rule support in the NFHS domain for what you suggest.


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I was not speaking about rules differences or philosophies. If a shooter is fouled in the act of shooting you do not simply ignore that action. I did not say a word about NCAA BTW. We have people here talking about organizations that are not NF either, but for some reason that is OK. So if the majority of officials are in the NF domain, they can review what levels they are familiar with. No where does it say we only discuss one level of basketball here.

Peace

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If the foul takes place before time expires, put time on the clock and put people on the line...in general, the foul when the time expires should have time put on the clock.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I was not speaking about rules differences or philosophies. If a shooter is fouled in the act of shooting you do not simply ignore that action. I did not say a word about NCAA BTW. We have people here talking about organizations that are not NF either, but for some reason that is OK. So if the majority of officials are in the NF domain, they can review what levels they are familiar with. No where does it say we only discuss one level of basketball here.

You deflected, so I’ll simplify. What you suggest is wholly unsupported by NFHS rules, cases, and annual interpretations.


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[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

You deflected, so I’ll simplify. What you suggest is wholly unsupported by NFHS rules, cases, and annual interpretations.


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Don’t expect him to ever admit that he is wrong about anything. He hasn’t done so in the almost twenty years that I’ve been on this forum.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Don’t expect him to ever admit that he is wrong about anything. He hasn’t done so in the almost twenty years that I’ve been on this forum.

And you do not ever admit you are an ass, but that has not stopped you here either.

IJS!!!!

Peace

[dahoopref]

A.R. 127. In a game without a courtside monitor available, and with the score
tied near the expiration of time in the second half:
1. Shooter A1 is fouled in the act of shooting, but time expires before the
release of the ball and the try is successful;

RULING 1: When the official determines that the foul occurred before
the sounding of the game-clock horn, and signals for the clock to stop
and the timer fails to stop the clock, a timing mistake occurred and
the official shall put time back on the clock to when the official has
definitive knowledge as to the time on the clock when the foul was
called. The goal shall count. In this case, A1 is awarded one free throw.
However, when the official does not have definitive knowledge as to the
time on the game clock when the foul was called and the timer does
not stop the clock, this is not a timer’s mistake and time should not be
placed back on the game clock. When the official determines that the
foul occurred before the sounding of the game-clock horn, the basket
shall not count and A1 is awarded two free throws. A1 shall shoot both
free throws even if the first is successful. When both free throws are
unsuccessful, the game continues with an extra period(s).

On a foul that occurs near the expiration of time, officials must
determine that the clock did not stop when the whistle sounded
either because a timing mistake occurred or because it was so near the
expiration of time that the timer is unable to stop the clock. In the first
case, time is put back on the game clock and the game has not ended.
In the second case, time is not placed back on the clock and the game
has ended. When both free throws are unsuccessful, the game continues
with an extra period(s).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

You deflected, so I’ll simplify. What you suggest is wholly unsupported by NFHS rules, cases, and annual interpretations.

How can you have a foul that clearly took place before the horn sounded and not put time on the clock? How? So if you have a foul that clearly happened before the horn, you must time on the clock logically. They got rid of the lag time provision some time ago. I do not care what the NF says directly about a situation the NF hardly ever addresses like many situations. So you are going to have a foul that clearly you called before the horn and you are going to say, "Nope, time ran out." Because you have to determine if the other action would not have continued during what is basically a dead ball and if you have other actions that have to be applied. That is not deflecting, that is actually what people believe, even if you put .1 on the clock. If you have the foul after time runs out, then you have to decide if that action was legal or not based on if you have a dead ball or not or if the action can be ignored because it was not flagrant or intentional on some level.

Some of yall are so married to a book that does not tell you everything to do in multiple situations and then you want to state what should be done with a situation that might have been addressed 20 years ago and never spoken of before. Where I live, it is largely accepted to put time on the clock if we know we called a foul before the clock ran out.

Peace