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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 03, 2020, 04:27pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
No I did not, at least not any televised sports (especially not NCAA, NBA, WNBA basketball), or any high school basketball around here.

Now I know. Thanks for the correction.
It was not at those levels that I can ascertain. But there were high school officials in different parts of the country that appeared to kneel. I said this before, it was asked what was the supervisor's opinion if it took place. It did not happen around me, but it did happen somewhere. I cannot tell you specifically, but it did happen.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 03, 2020, 04:29pm
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Trust ...

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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I cannot tell you specifically, but it did happen.
I believe you, I was not being sarcastic, sorry.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 27, 2020, 11:45am
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Social Justice & Officiating ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
Kneeling during the National Anthem. NBA referees knelt the other night. On the High School and College level, what if members of the crew are split on this, some kneeling and others not?
I just finished viewing, Social Justice & Officiating, a round table discussion from the National Association of Sports Officials Virtual Annual Summit happening this week.

Nationally recognized expert speakers discussed how official crews may have to deal with different attitudes within a game crew regarding "kneeling protests", including kneeling by the officials themselves.

All agreed that these situations should be discussed in advance, including proactive, rather than reactive, guidance from the leadership of various state or local officials organizations.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Aug 27, 2020 at 12:01pm.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 27, 2020, 12:04pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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We must note that what is going on in the NBA is totally different than what most of us face. They all work for the same group and they also all are in a league that is totally for social justice attention. Unlike a college or high school official that might work for 10 different people and what you do in one league might hurt you in another. So the NBA officials have a lot of different cover. The same would be if the NFL does the same thing. I think it is harder to do as an "independent contractor" when it might not be approved in one place and just fine in another place. It can be discussed but I might have different concerns. I work for different people, I am not confident that all of them would be OK with this and I do not need to kneel to show my position on social justice issues. I am going to watch that session on the NASO page, but have not had the time to sit down and see it all. But I want to watch it for sure.

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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 27, 2020, 12:20pm
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Oh Say Can You See ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
We must note that what is going on in the NBA is totally different than what most of us face. They all work for the same group and they also all are in a league that is totally for social justice attention ... So the NBA officials have a lot of different cover ... I think it is harder to do as an "independent contractor" when it might not be approved in one place and just fine in another place ...
I only work for one assigner, who works very closely with the executive committee of my local board. I hope that we get some preseason advice regarding officials in crews who want to stand, kneel, or stay in the locker room, and to remind us that's it's none of our business (as game officials) if teams (or individual players) stand, kneel, or stay in the locker room (there have been a few problems in a few states where officials indicated that they would walk out if the flag was disrespected).
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 27, 2020, 12:24pm
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Spoiler Alert ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I am going to watch that session on the NASO page, but have not had the time to sit down and see it all. But I want to watch it for sure.
Interesting discussion regarding how officials should look more like the players, and how to recruit and mentor diverse officials so that this happens.

Some interesting statements like how assigning sixty-five year old white males to officiate basketball games on Native American reservations in New Mexico doesn't help to recruit Native American basketball officials.

Another state (I believe Washington) got female NCAA soccer officials, who also officiate high school soccer games, to give up their weekend college games so that they could officiate all the final games in all levels of the girls high school soccer tournament so that the girls could envision a future in soccer officiating.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Aug 28, 2020 at 01:57pm.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 27, 2020, 02:02pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I only work for one assigner, who works very closely with the executive committee of my local board. I hope that we get some preseason advice regarding officials in crews who want to stand, kneel, or stay in the locker room, and to remind us that's it's none of our business (as game officials) if teams (or individual players) stand, kneel, or stay in the locker room (there have been a few problems in a few states where officials indicated that they would walk out if the flag was disrespected).
I remember when Kaepernick kneeled and the country got caught up in that so much there were others doing the same things. And I remember discussing it in a few meetings "What are we going to do...." as if the sky was going to fall. Well, basically not much happened. I remember some people trying to penalize players for kneeling during the Anthem and the state saying to players, "Not our responsibility" for the most part and let the schools handle their school's protests. It went away. Honestly, I think we will have so many other issues at play this fall or winter that this will be the main issue. Yes there might be an officiating crew or two across the country that will do something. Maybe more, but I think a lot of officials will think that is not their role and either way I am OK with it. I think we are kind of overblow this being a challenge. Or at least for me, I do not need to discuss anything with my partners. If I do anything it will be personal, I am not looking for everyone's approval on a personal show of protest.

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 27, 2020, 02:25pm
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Agenda Item ...

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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I think we will have so many other issues at play this fall or winter that this will be the main issue. Yes there might be an officiating crew or two across the country that will do something. Maybe more, but I think a lot of officials will think that is not their role and either way ... I think we are kind of overblow this being a challenge.
The National Association of Sports Officials thought it was important enough to add to the agenda for their 2020 Virtual Summit, there must be, at least, a little something to this.

Social justice issues are "big" on the professional level of sports (look at what happened yesterday), and although it will probably get diluted, a little will probably filter down through the college, and maybe even to the high school level, possibly involving officials.

Officials starting getting "political" back in the early 2000's by adding flags to uniforms, who's to say they won't get political again?

I haven't seen widespread social justice protests like these going on now since the 1960's Civil Rights movement.

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Aug 27, 2020 at 03:10pm.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 27, 2020, 03:21pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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I am not saying they do not need to discuss social justice issues. I think that the kneeling or not kneeling or protest vs. no protest is overplayed. We might not have games to play this year at all for many of us. I am not having a pre-game conference about this issue because as a Black person, I know I am on an island with many of my partners. I am not personally going to be used to stand out by myself in a thing that is not my actual job or that is an extra activity. I can voice those things, but it will not be on the court or field unless I have some support. Just my personal choice at this time. The NBA officials had the backing of the league from multiple levels. I could see the IHSA for example having a position, but then you get another fight with a school district or a conference. I do not feel like having this fight in this arena because I feel there are other areas to take action to get the social justice I would like to see as I have done for years already. I was raised in this, not just focusing on something that took place in the last few months or even decades.

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 27, 2020, 04:59pm
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1619, Jamestown Colony ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
not just focusing on something that took place in the last few months or even decades.
400 years.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 27, 2020, 05:01pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
400 years.
Just my lifetime.

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 27, 2020, 05:03pm
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Wise Coach ...

“It’s amazing why we keep loving this country, and this country does not love us back.” (Doc Rivers)
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Aug 28, 2020 at 01:55pm.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 31, 2020, 02:43pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
“It’s amazing why we keep loving this country, and this country does not love us back.” (Doc Rivers)

This is such garbage. I get that Doc has a platform and he’s gonna use it to further the cause of his people. But don’t give me the “this country does not love us back” crap. I get so tired of this crap. It’s propoganda and he knows it. Does it suck that someone got shot? Absolutely, 100% yes!! But let’s also look at the facts of the case. I won’t go into them all here and how. But c’mon, man, be fair about what really happened.


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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 31, 2020, 03:05pm
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Liberty And Justice For All ...

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Originally Posted by WhistlesAndStripes View Post
It’s propaganda and he knows it ...
Propaganda? That a group of people have been mistreated as second class citizens for 400 years?

It seems that white males have gotten more than their fair share of liberty and justice for "all" for quite a long time.

Time for that to change.

That is, time for that to peacefully change.



My great grandfather was discriminated against as a nineteenth century Irish immigrant. He and his descendants lost their accents and were then treated well because they didn't have to change the color of their skin to fit into this American melting pot. Black Americans didn't have this luxury, whether they were kidnapped and brought here as slaves, or are descendants of slaves, or immigrated here in more modern times. The deck has been stacked against them for a long time, it's improved over the years (Civil War, Civil Rights), but this country still has a long way to go. White privilege is a stubborn old coot and it's not easily going to go away.

Moderators can certainly delete this post (hopefully no other penalty), I didn't post it to start a political debate, it comes directly from my mind, my heart, my soul, and my want to make this great country even greater for everybody.

I want the violence to stop, but I want the message to continue to ring loud and clear.



This is what is inscribed on the Liberty Bell: Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof (Leviticus 25:10).

And here's what Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in 1963:

"Let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania! Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado! Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California! But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia! Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee! Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring. And when this happens, when we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old negro spiritual, 'Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!'"

Black lives have to matter as much as all lives matter.

No more. No less.

Right now black lives don't matter as much as white lives matter.


Education. Housing. Employment. Criminal justice. Health care. Wealth.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Aug 31, 2020 at 05:30pm.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 31, 2020, 03:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Propaganda? That a group of people have been mistreated as second class citizens for 400 years?

It seems that white males have gotten more than their fair share of liberty and justice for "all" for quite a long time.

Time for that to change.

That is, time for that to peacefully change.

My great grandfather was discriminated against as a nineteenth century Irish immigrant (Irish Need Not Apply). He and his descendants lost their accents and now are treated well because they didn't have to change the color of their skin to fit into this American melting pot. Black Americans didn't have this luxury, whether they were kidnapped and brought here as slaves, or are descendants of slaves, or immigrated here in more modern times. The deck has been stacked against them for a long time, it's improved over the years (Civil War, Civil Rights), but this country still has a long way to go. White privilege is a stubborn old coot and it's not easily going to go away.

Moderators can certainly delete this post, I didn't post it to start a political debate, it comes directly from my mind, my heart, my soul, and my want to make this great country even greater for everybody.

Nope, I'm not touching it. Can't speak for the others.


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