|
|||
Quote:
Team control for foul purposes begins when the throw-in begins. A loose ball following a legal touch would still be under team control of the throw-in team for fouls only (i.e. we don't shoot FTs). For violations there is no team control until player control is established inbounds. This is why a throw-in that is deflected by A1 in his FC that is then touched by Team A in its BC is not a BC violation. |
|
|||
Quote:
Thank you. Can this be found in the 2019-2020 rule book? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
|||
Player Control Is Obtained Inbounds ...
Quote:
The "team control foul" period on a throwin ends when player control is obtained inbounds. 4-19-7: A team-control foul is a common foul committed by a member of the team that has team control or by a member of the throw-in team from the start of the throw-in until player control is obtained inbounds.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) |
|
|||
Citation ...
Yes.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) |
|
|||
Additional Citations ...
Quote:
9-8: A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of the ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds. 4-12-2: A team is in control of the ball: a. When a player of the team is in control. b. While a live ball is being passed among teammates. 4-12-1: A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball. Fouls (Rule 10) and violations (Rule 9)? Apples and oranges.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Oct 25, 2019 at 10:26am. |
|
|||
Quote:
Quote:
You really are making this way too complicated. It really is not that hard to understand. The count for 10 seconds only starts once the team in control has actual possession of the ball in the backcourt. It has nothing to do with the throw-in control. Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
|
|||
Never, Ever ...
Quote:
But sometimes rules and definitions take on a new light when examined under ultra extreme circumstances that will only happen never in an officiating lifetime. I'm sure that most of us have observed teams legally taking more than ten seconds to get the ball across the division line after the first inbounds touch after the throwin pass, legal because the thowin pass was fumbled around, maybe rolling around on the floor, before eventually being picked up, caught, or dribbled. I've seen interesting situations in prep school games because here in Connecticut prep schools use hybrid NFHS/NCAA rules. NFHS rule for ten second count (starts at holding or dribbling), NCAA rule for shot clock (starts on first touch inbounds). Fans scream for ten second violations just because the shot clock has ticked off ten seconds. Stupid hybrid rules. Simple. Terse. Correct.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Oct 25, 2019 at 06:12pm. |
|
|||
Quote:
The better solution is to go back to the old and complete team control definition and forget all about call it team control on a throwin. Instead, just declare that fouls that are committed by the throwing once the ball becomes live for a throw are team control fouls just like fouls by an airborne shooter are considered player control fouls even though the player doesn't have player control.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
|
|||
Quote:
They then decided they didn’t want to shoot so many free throws so they created team control fouls and said no FTs for those. As mentioned above, team control definition was an inbounds thing. So no FTs for illegal screens etc. by team in control of ball inbounds. FTs were still shot if the throwin team fouled during the throwin. (Assuming bonus) They then decided they didn’t want to shoot FTs when throwin team fouled during throwin so they added 4-12-2d language. Adding that language to the rest of rule 4-12 makes it read like once ball at disposal for throwin team control exists and continues until ball dead, field goal attempt etc. I understand the confusion of it because it reads like you interpreted it. As noted by others, they added language to make it clear team control during throwin and in til player control is obtained is for foul purposes only. They were not intending to change Violation concepts. BC count has always started when player controls ball inbounds. They were trying to eliminate some FTs and confused many folks. |
|
|||
There are only 2 logically consistent ways to resolve this conundrum of having team control exist (and simultaneously not exist) at different times for different purposes: either eliminate throw-ins from the discussion of team control altogether, or introduce a shot clock into NFHS basketball.
Some states use a shot clock with the visible 10-second count (MD boys), while others have modified their backcourt count rule to incorporate a non-visible count that starts per existing college rules (DC boys). In either approach, the states using a shot clock recognize that team control exists from the throw-in. The only question is whether player control is required (or not) to start the 10-second count off the throw-in. However, we (the NFHS rules-making and enforcing community) can decide this once a shot clock is adopted for high school basketball, whether nationally or by one's local state association. |
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Lah me.. (In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.) |
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
|
|||
I think 4-12-2d should be removed. Then a 4-12-7 created to say” for foul purposes only, there shall be team control when ball at disposal of team for throwin until player control obtained inbounds.
Something like that to make it read better than it does now.... |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Throw In NFHS game | Stripes33 | Basketball | 19 | Thu Dec 07, 2017 02:09pm |
NFHS throw in question | UNIgiantslayers | Basketball | 9 | Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:50am |
New NFHS Free Throw Rule. | Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. | Basketball | 60 | Fri Sep 19, 2014 09:42am |
Free Throw Question (NFHS) | Raymond | Basketball | 10 | Wed Oct 30, 2013 06:08am |
AP throw-in (yes again) / NFHS vs NCAA | eyezen | Basketball | 6 | Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:31pm |