Throw-in NFHS

[rwodar]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS 9-8: A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of the ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.



"Continuous control".



NFHS 4-12: CONTROL, PLAYER AND TEAM

ART. 1 A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or -

dribbling a live ball. There is no player control when, during a jump ball, a

jumper catches the ball prior to the ball touching the floor or a non-jumper,

or during an interrupted dribble.

ART. 2 A team is in control of the ball:

a. When a player of the team is in control.

b. While a live ball is being passed among teammates.

c. During an interrupted dribble.

d. When a player of the team has disposal of the ball for a throw-in.

ART. 3 Team control continues until:

a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

b. An opponent secures control.

c. The ball becomes dead.

ART. 4 While the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in

control of the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap

for goal.



Situation 10 is not the same as the original post but the language is quite clear, "continuous control".



2017-18 Interpretations

SITUATION 10: A1 has the ball for an end-line throw-in in his/her backcourt. The administering official reaches a four-second count when A1 passes the ball onto the court. A1’s pass to A2, who is also in Team A’s backcourt, takes several bounces and six seconds before A2 picks up and controls the ball. RULING: Legal. Even though a team is now in control during a throw-in, the 10-second rule specifically requires that a player/team be in continuous control in its backcourt for 10 seconds for a violation to occur. Technically speaking, the thrower-in is out of bounds and not located in the backcourt. (4-35-2, 9-8)

Maybe my original reply was poorly worded but I think we are on the same page here. The count begins when B2 touches the ball in this example.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

It depends.

Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18
2. Team control, throw-in. The relevance of team control during a throw-in only applies when a member of the throw- in team fouls. Such fouls shall be ruled team control fouls. Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds.

[rwodar]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It depends.



Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18

2. Team control, throw-in. The relevance of team control during a throw-in only applies when a member of the throw- in team fouls. Such fouls shall be ruled team control fouls. Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds.

This also doesn’t make sense. other than a field goal or free throw attempt There is NEVER a live ball situation where team control does not exist. If what you’re saying is true, that would mean if team B commits a foul while the ball is sitting there in the back court and team A were in the bonus, we would shoot free throws, which is NOT the case.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rwodar

... that would mean if team B commits a foul while the ball is sitting there in the back court and team A were in the bonus, we would shoot free throws, which is NOT the case.

Since the "team control foul" period on a throwin ends when player control is obtained inbounds, and since player control had not been established inbounds, then there would be no free throws.

4-19-7: A team-control foul is a common foul committed by a member
of the team that has team control or by a member of the throw-in team from
the start of the throw-in until player control is obtained inbounds.

[BillyMac]

4.19.7 SITUATION D: A1 has the ball for a throw in. The throw-in pass deflects off of A2. As A2 and B2 are attempting to retrieve the loose throw-in pass, A2 illegally pushes B2 from behind and is called for a foul. Team B is in the bonus. RULING: Team A is in control during this throw in, therefore a team-control foul has been committed. B2 is awarded a throw in at a spot closest to where the foul occurred. (4-12-6)

[rwodar]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Since the "team control foul" period on a throwin ends when player control is obtained inbounds, and since player control had not been established inbounds, then there would be no free throws.



4-19-7: A team-control foul is a common foul committed by a member

of the team that has team control or by a member of the throw-in team from

the start of the throw-in until player control is obtained inbounds.

Regardless of the explanation of why this is a team control foul your initial statement about not starting the 10second count until player control is obtained is incorrect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[billyu2]

[QUOTE=rwodar;1035010]Regardless of the explanation of why this is a team control foul your initial statement about not starting the 10second count until player control is obtained is incorrect.

It is not incorrect. The Case Play that was cited 4.12.2b specifically tell us on a deflected throw in pass there can be no 3 second violation, no over/back violation and a 10 count cannot be started until the player gains control. Again, team control on throw in plays only applies to fouls committed by the throw in team. Please give us a specific citation from the RB, CB or Officials Manual that says the official should start the count when the throw in pass is touched/deflected.

[rwodar]

[QUOTE=billyu2;1035011]

Originally Posted by rwodar

Regardless of the explanation of why this is a team control foul your initial statement about not starting the 10second count until player control is obtained is incorrect.

It is not incorrect. The Case Play that was cited 4.12.2b specifically tell us on a deflected throw in pass there can be no 3 second violation, no over/back violation and a 10 count cannot be started until the player gains control. Again, team control on throw in plays only applies to fouls committed by the throw in team. Please give us a specific citation from the RB, CB or Officials Manual that says the official should start the count when the throw in pass is touched/deflected.

4.12.2b doesn’t quite make sense to me... in the situation they say team a is inbounding in the backcourt but then also say that the ball “crosses the division line” implying when A3 gains control it would be in the from court...THEN in the ruling they say “the backcourt count does not start until A3 gains control in the backcourt..? The ruling contradicts the situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rwodar

Regardless of the explanation of why this is a team control foul your initial statement about not starting the 10second count until player control is obtained is incorrect.

Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18
2. Team control, throw-in ...Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds.

NFHS 9-8: A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of the ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

NFHS 4-12: CONTROL, PLAYER AND TEAM
ART. 1 A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or -
dribbling a live ball.

[Camron Rust]

Just to add another voice to the many correct once, since someone doesn't want to believe it...

* Team control for fouls begins when the thrower has the ball.

* Team control for ALL other purposes begins when a player inbounds established layer control.

Both forms of team control end in the same way: dead ball, other team gains control, or a try is released.

This rule really needs to be rewritten. I may take that challenge on now.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by rwodar

This also doesn’t make sense. other than a field goal or free throw attempt There is NEVER a live ball situation where team control does not exist ...

The jump ball before a player gains control.

Apologies if anyone addressed this aspect of his claims already, but I didn't see it in the thread.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rwodar

The count begins when B2 touches the ball in this example.

No it doesn't.

The ten second count begins when a player holds or dribbles a live ball inbounds.

[Zoochy]

To add onto the original play.... The possession arrow is pointing towards Team A. The Trail Official sounds his/her whistle. Signals 10 second/Back court violation.
Now what do you do? Team B never established Team Control. Inadvertent Whistle from Trail Official.

[rwodar]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No it doesn't.



The ten second count begins when a player holds or dribbles a live ball inbounds.

...If team A isn’t pressing team b can just touch the ball in bounds and sit in the backcourt as long as they’d like?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rwodar

...If team A isn’t pressing team b can just touch the ball in bounds and sit in the backcourt as long as they’d like?

Only until the end of the period buzzer sounds.