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Old Tue Oct 16, 2007, 03:17pm
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AP throw-in (yes again) / NFHS vs NCAA

I hesitated to post this because it has been debated ad nauseam, however I posted a question in the last thread that had gotten lost in the debate.

So here I go...

By now everyone knows the rules in question:

NFHS 4-45-5 The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches, or is legally touched by another player who is either inbounds or out of bounds, except as in 7-5-7

NFHS 6-4-4 The direction of the possession arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. An alternating-possession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends or when the throw-in teams violates.

Which is virtually identical to:

NCAA 6-3-2 The direction of the alternating-possession arrow shall be reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. That throw-in shall end when a passed ball touches or is legally touched by an inbounds player or when a player, who is located on the playing court, touches and causes the ball to be out of bounds or when the throw-in team commits a throw-in violation.

I looked to 05-06 and the rule is the same.

My point here is that the NCAA has had the same rule in place for at least the last two seasons and I would think it's safe to assume that this play has a precedent on how it is to be handled in a game.

My questions are:

1) What is the current NCAA interpt?

2) Is it the same as the new NFHS interpt?

3) Is there any other cases where the rules are the same but interpreted differently?
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Old Tue Oct 16, 2007, 03:51pm
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1. I believe that the NCAA interp is the same as the NFHS, but can't say for sure.
2. The NFHS simply clarified the rule. They did NOT change it. That has always been the rule. All that they did was add the word legally to the text of a couple of rules to ensure that people were administering this play correctly. Before it was unclear.

3. Yes.
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Old Tue Oct 16, 2007, 04:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyezen
I hesitated to post this because it has been debated ad nauseam, however I posted a question in the last thread that had gotten lost in the debate.

So here I go...

By now everyone knows the rules in question:

NFHS 4-45-5 The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches, or is legally touched by another player who is either inbounds or out of bounds, except as in 7-5-7

NFHS 6-4-4 The direction of the possession arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. An alternating-possession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends or when the throw-in teams violates.

Which is virtually identical to:

NCAA 6-3-2 The direction of the alternating-possession arrow shall be reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. That throw-in shall end when a passed ball touches or is legally touched by an inbounds player or when a player, who is located on the playing court, touches and causes the ball to be out of bounds or when the throw-in team commits a throw-in violation.

I looked to 05-06 and the rule is the same.

My point here is that the NCAA has had the same rule in place for at least the last two seasons and I would think it's safe to assume that this play has a precedent on how it is to be handled in a game.

My questions are:

1) What is the current NCAA interpt?

2) Is it the same as the new NFHS interpt?

3) Is there any other cases where the rules are the same but interpreted differently?
How does the NCAA rule square with the 07-08 NFHS interpretations? The NCAA rule above references that the throw-in ends when the ball is touched by "an inbounds player...who is located on the playing court"...this would mean to me that if a player is on the boundary line and touched the ball, you would not change AP because that player is not located on the playing court.

The NFHS interpretation, Situation 3 discusses what happens when the AP inbounds is touched by either an A or B player while that player is standing on the boundary line. In this case it says the throw-in ends and you reverse the AP because "the player was touched by the ball while out of bounds, thereby ending the throw-in"
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Old Tue Oct 16, 2007, 06:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
2. The NFHS simply clarified the rule. They did NOT change it. That has always been the rule. All that they did was add the word legally to the text of a couple of rules to ensure that people were administering this play correctly. Before it was unclear.
I don't want to get into a semantical argument here but verbatim from the Comments on Rule Revisions.

".....the previous rule could possibly reward a defensive team for committing a violation, especially during an alternating-possession throw-in."

The fact that the FED says there was a "previous rule" and that the outcome of this clarification is now handled differently than before suggests a rule change to me.

In any case, whether a rule change or clarification or both the FED rule now matches the NCAA rule, which has been the same for at a minimum of two seasons (I say this because I have checked only the last two).

The consensus (not all) of this board is that by FED rule:

1) AP A
2) AP situation
3) throw in began by A
4) illegal touch by B
5) new throw in completed by A
6) AP remains A

Who here before who has worked NCAA knows what the proper outcome would be under that ruleset?

Does the arrow reverse or not as in part 6 above?

Last edited by eyezen; Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 06:32pm.
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Old Wed Oct 17, 2007, 12:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
How does the NCAA rule square with the 07-08 NFHS interpretations? The NCAA rule above references that the throw-in ends when the ball is touched by "an inbounds player...who is located on the playing court"...this would mean to me that if a player is on the boundary line and touched the ball, you would not change AP because that player is not located on the playing court.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyezen
Who here before who has worked NCAA knows what the proper outcome would be under that ruleset?

Does the arrow reverse or not as in part 6 above?
If you guys ask nicely, perhaps Chuck will come along and answer.

PS You better be quiet about his BoSox.
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Old Wed Oct 17, 2007, 08:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
If you guys ask nicely, perhaps Chuck will come along and answer.

PS You better be quiet about his BoSox.
Pretty please Chuck???? (GO TRIBE! )
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 17, 2007, 12:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyezen
1) AP A
2) AP situation
3) throw in began by A
4) illegal touch by B
5) new throw in completed by A
6) AP remains A
NCAA- W...you are correct with those 6 steps.
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