2019-20 NFHS: Rumors/Desires?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

1. Changing the goaltending rule to mimic NBA/NCAA-M/NCAA-W/FIBA (every f-ing major rule set btw) where you cannot block the ball once it has touched the backboard. This is an easy rule change, easy to call, easy to write, and it blows my mind they haven't done it.

....

I don't think that is the rule in NCAA-M. At least not what you wrote.

[SC Official]

Another change I'd be happy to see is getting rid of visible 10-second backcourt counts. I know the NFHS rule is different than NCAA as to when the count starts after a throw-in (player control vs. first touch) but in most situations the count still starts at the same time.

This won't happen until we get a shot clock, and I'm not a shot clock advocate. So I'll carry on.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Another change I'd be happy to see is getting rid of visible 10-second backcourt counts. I know the NFHS rule is different than NCAA as to when the count starts after a throw-in (player control vs. first touch) but in most situations the count still starts at the same time.

This won't happen until we get a shot clock, and I'm not a shot clock advocate. So I'll carry on.

Even NCAA has not gotten rid of visible 10-second backcourt counts. By rule and the CCA Manuals, there still is a visible 10-second count when the shot clock is off (usually in the last 30 seconds of the period) or unavailable (e.g. shot clock malfunction, shot clock is kept on an alternate timing device at the table).

SC Official, I thought you were an NCAA Men's official, and that rule set, like NFHS, requires that an official stop the clock on all fouls and violations, with an open hand (violations and miscellaneous), fist (fouls), or thumbs up (held balls). J.D. Collins has been making that a point of emphasis in his training videos for the last few years, and in the last few editions of the CCA Men's Manual. Unless the rules redefine the clock as stopping on the whistle, which is now the case for NBA rules, the official's signal is how the clock is stopped, by rule. I have seen officials tell the timer to "watch my hand/watch my signal" when starting and/or stopping the clock, especially in the last minute of a quarter, so at least some timers still react to the official's signals to start/stop the game clock.

I would also like to see the backcourt rules changed to match NCAA. The NCAA rule is fairer to the offense (they can retrieve all deflected balls, not just ones that the defense touched last), and more consistent to administer (count starts when the ball is touched, and the touch is usually accompanied by another visual cue in the shot clock starting).

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Even NCAA has not gotten rid of visible 10-second backcourt counts. By rule and the CCA Manuals, there still is a visible 10-second count when the shot clock is off (usually in the last 30 seconds of the period) or unavailable (e.g. shot clock malfunction, shot clock is kept on an alternate timing device at the table).

SC Official, I thought you were an NCAA Men's official, and that rule set, like NFHS, requires that an official stop the clock on all fouls and violations, with an open hand (violations and miscellaneous), fist (fouls), or thumbs up (held balls). J.D. Collins has been making that a point of emphasis in his training videos for the last few years, and in the last few editions of the CCA Men's Manual. Unless the rules redefine the clock as stopping on the whistle, which is now the case for NBA rules, the official's signal is how the clock is stopped, by rule. I have seen officials tell the timer to "watch my hand/watch my signal" when starting and/or stopping the clock, especially in the last minute of a quarter, so at least some timers still react to the official's signals to start/stop the game clock.

Once again you think I need a lecture on what the rules and mechanics are. I don't.

What the rule says =/= What actually happens

Timers stop the clock when the whistle blows. They aren't looking at your hand. Hate to break it to you.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Timers stop the clock when the whistle blows. They aren't looking at your hand.

Back when I was coaching middle school basketball, I would have student timekeepers and scorekeepers. Of course, I would have to teach them how to keep score, and how to keep time.

Teaching the timekeeper when to start the clock was the hard part.

Teaching the timekeeper when to stop the clock was much, much easier, keep one's finger on the button and stop the clock when you hear a whistle. End of lesson.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Once again you think I need a lecture on what the rules and mechanics are. I don't.

What the rule says =/= What actually happens

Timers stop the clock when the whistle blows. They aren't looking at your hand. Hate to break it to you.

I am not giving a lecture. I am just showing that the things that you consider irrelevant are actually being emphasized by the powers-that-be in NCAA Men's basketball, and are actually being done in practice. I gave you the example of officials reminding timers to "watch my hand" in last-minute situationsthat I have actually observed, as an example of why the stop-clock signal is needed in real life.

I also wanted to clarify what you said about the 10-second count to make it clear what the actual NCAAM (and NCAAW) rule is, and why I would support a change of the NFHS backcourt rules (10-second count and crossing the division line) to its NCAAM counterpart.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... officials reminding timers to "watch my hand" in last-minute situations that I have actually observed, as an example of why the stop-clock signal is needed in real life.

Almost forty years of officiating high school basketball, I have never heard of any official ever reminding timekeepers to watch for a stop clock signal near the end of a very close game. Never. Ever.

I have heard (and actually did it many times) of officials reminding timekeepers to watch for a chop to start the clock signal near the end of a very close game.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Almost forty years of officiating high school basketball, I have never heard of any official ever reminding timekeepers to watch for a stop time signal near the end of a very close game. Never. Ever.

I have heard (and actually did it many times) of officials reminding timekeepers to watch for a chop to start the clock signal near the end of a very close game.

I have had timers say they couldn't hear the whistle over a crowd (and my whistle is not quiet) and saw the hand go up and stopped it once they saw that....but it was a little later.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I am not giving a lecture. I am just showing that the things that you consider irrelevant are actually being emphasized by the powers-that-be in NCAA Men's basketball, and are actually being done in practice. I gave you the example of officials reminding timers to "watch my hand" in last-minute situationsthat I have actually observed, as an example of why the stop-clock signal is needed in real life.

I also wanted to clarify what you said about the 10-second count to make it clear what the actual NCAAM (and NCAAW) rule is, and why I would support a change of the NFHS backcourt rules (10-second count and crossing the division line) to its NCAAM counterpart.

That is lovely that JD Collins wants NCAA-M officials stopping the clock. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Because I can assure you for every JD Collins there is someone who thinks it's pointless, including many that work NCAA-M. I know you think everything done and emphasized at the higher levels is sacrosanct, but it's not. Sorry.