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Old Tue Apr 15, 2014, 07:38pm
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NFHS Rules Changes Predictions/Rumors/Desires

With the NFHS Rules Committee convening through tomorrow, I thought this would be a fun discussion.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Fed follow the NCAA's lead and write the four specific fouls on a ball handler into Rule 10-6 (arm bar, two hands, jabbing, continually touching), or something similar.

What I would like to see (as if my opinion means anything )...

-Free throw restrictions end on release for players in marked lane space (long overdue IMO)
-POI after a single non-flagrant technical foul (no stupid "contact dead ball technical foul" rule)
-Head coach does not lose box for indirect T
-Rewrite the backcourt rule and case plays

Last edited by bballref3966; Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 07:40pm.
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Old Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:32pm
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Abolish Alternating Possession, LOL! And POI.

MTD, Sr.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:36pm
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Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Abolish Alternating Possession, LOL! And POI.

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Why would you want to get rid of the POI?
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Old Tue Apr 15, 2014, 09:12pm
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Originally Posted by APG View Post
Why would you want to get rid of the POI?
'cause he wants a jump ball for all double fouls and IWs?
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Old Tue Apr 15, 2014, 09:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bballref3966 View Post
With the NFHS Rules Committee convening through tomorrow, I thought this would be a fun discussion.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Fed follow the NCAA's lead and write the four specific fouls on a ball handler into Rule 10-6 (arm bar, two hands, jabbing, continually touching), or something similar.

What I would like to see (as if my opinion means anything )...

-Free throw restrictions end on release for players in marked lane space (long overdue IMO)
-POI after a single non-flagrant technical foul (no stupid "contact dead ball technical foul" rule)
-Head coach does not lose box for indirect T
-Rewrite the backcourt rule and case plays
1. I'm good with that.
2 and 3, I like the way the rule is already. HS sports should keep the added penalties for sportsmanship lapses.
4. I'm not holding my breath.
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Old Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:24pm
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No way I'd give up the seatbelt rule.

As usual, I'd like to see free throw restrictions end on the release and I'll be one of the weird ones that wants to get rid of the AP arrow.
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Old Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:47pm
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No way I'd give up the seatbelt rule.
Only for indirect T's.

For example, an assistant spontaneously curses at an official's call and is whacked. There's not necessarily any reason to believe that the head coach was allowing that behavior. It was simply a heat of the moment poor choice by another adult, over whom the head coach may only have so much control. Why not just tell the coach, "Keep your bench under control because that's on you, also" instead of making him sit for what was ultimately an action by another adult? Yes the head coach is responsible for the bench, but that's why he gets charged indirectly with T's on bench personnel. I'm fine with taking away the box for his own actions, but I don't love the idea of punishing the head coach more than an indirect T for another person's actions.

Just my two cents. Still, I would change the free throw restrictions rule before I changed this.
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Old Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:55pm
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I would like:

The goaltending rule to mirror the NCAA-M rule
The ability to put a "coaching box warning", "bench warning", or "coach warning" in the book, for whatever that's worth
Addition of a direct technical foul with no free throws that counts toward an ejection
The NCAA-M "automatic" hand check fouls, not just RSBQ

Mechanics changes:
Lead able to administer sideline throw-in below the FTLE
Lead's area includes primary on 3-point shooter in their corner à la NCAA-W
NCAA-M switching (not popular)
Ability to use game clock for 10 second backcourt count
Emphasis that C cannot initiate a rotation
Emphasis that the "Official Signals" are more like guidelines

These are just off the top of my head, I'm sure I can think of more.
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Old Tue Apr 15, 2014, 11:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
I would like:

The goaltending rule to mirror the NCAA-M rule
The ability to put a "coaching box warning", "bench warning", or "coach warning" in the book, for whatever that's worth
Addition of a direct technical foul with no free throws that counts toward an ejection
The NCAA-M "automatic" hand check fouls, not just RSBQ

Mechanics changes:
Lead able to administer sideline throw-in below the FTLE
Lead's area includes primary on 3-point shooter in their corner à la NCAA-W
NCAA-M switching (not popular)
Ability to use game clock for 10 second backcourt count
Emphasis that C cannot initiate a rotation
Emphasis that the "Official Signals" are more like guidelines

These are just off the top of my head, I'm sure I can think of more.

I don't like most of your mechanics changes

2. Who watches post play on strong side while lead is officiating the 3-point shooter in the corner?

4. This would never work. Game clock runs before ball is at disposal of shooter, and while they are completing the throw in. Now official has to watch action he is responsible for, determine what time the ball was touched in bounds, and then calculate what time the clock has to read for violation. No thanks. It works with a shot clock, but not the game clock.

5. This is ridiculous. When the ball is trapped or pressured near the half court line on the Cs side, he damn well better initiate a rotation by getting his ass off the FTLE and going out there to officiate the play, and the L better recognize what is happening and get over where he belongs.

6. Reducing them to guidelines gives the impression that officials can make up their own signals or not use signals when needed. This would make a problem bigger, not help in any way whatsoever.
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Old Tue Apr 15, 2014, 11:24pm
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Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
I don't like most of your mechanics changes

2. Who watches post play on strong side while lead is officiating the 3-point shooter in the corner?

4. This would never work. Game clock runs before ball is at disposal of shooter, and while they are completing the throw in. Now official has to watch action he is responsible for, determine what time the ball was touched in bounds, and then calculate what time the clock has to read for violation. No thanks. It works with a shot clock, but not the game clock.

5. This is ridiculous. When the ball is trapped or pressured near the half court line on the Cs side, he damn well better initiate a rotation by getting his ass off the FTLE and going out there to officiate the play, and the L better recognize what is happening and get over where he belongs.

6. Reducing them to guidelines gives the impression that officials can make up their own signals or not use signals when needed. This would make a problem bigger, not help in any way whatsoever.
I understand.

2. I could be wrong, but I don't see much post play when a shooter is shooting in the corner. Most of the time when a player is trying to feed the post they are doing so from the wing, which is still Trails area. If by post play you mean rebounding coverage, then the Trail takes care of that. From what I understand, the Trail and C have a better view of what constitutes rebounding displacement than the Lead. I think this is how the NBA covers things.

4. "Game clock runs before ball is at disposal of shooter" Huh? I guess I really just want a shot clock then. Either way, I take a peek at the clock whenever the 10-second count should start -- it gives me a leg up when a coach questions my count. I just ask him "do you know what time on the clock did the count start? Cuz I know."

5. Lol, that was more of a jab at the old-timers who refuse to officiate "inside-out" from C....whenever the ball nears their side they are bailing out to get to Trail. As always, go where you need to go to best officiate the play.

6. Yeah but it might get all the guys who criticize the way I point or the stronger block, PC, or TC signal I use off my ass.
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Old Tue Apr 15, 2014, 11:50pm
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
I understand.


6. Yeah but it might get all the guys who criticize the way I point or the stronger block, PC, or TC signal I use off my ass.
I'll bet they'd get off your ass if you started using the proper signals.
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Old Wed Apr 16, 2014, 12:00am
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post

5. Lol, that was more of a jab at the old-timers who refuse to officiate "inside-out" from C....whenever the ball nears their side they are bailing out to get to Trail. As always, go where you need to go to best officiate the play.
The best place to go is to the T position, pulling the L across. The C shouldn't be expected to officiate "on ball" for very long. We put 2 officials ball-side for a reason.

Putting a warning in the book is just idiotic, IMO. I see officials advocating that now and I always ask them how that helps and where there's anything written that supports that kind of "written" warning. If you're going to take the time to put a warning in a book, just whack the coach and get it over with.
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Old Wed Apr 16, 2014, 12:03am
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Originally Posted by MechanicGuy View Post
I'll bet they'd get off your ass if you started using the proper signals.
Eh, there are better ways of calling a PC foul than fist, hand to the back of the head, and point (all with the same hand). I'm not at all bothered by people who suggest that the strict adherence to a set of mechanics is counterproductive.
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Old Wed Apr 16, 2014, 12:21am
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
The best place to go is to the T position, pulling the L across. The C shouldn't be expected to officiate "on ball" for very long. We put 2 officials ball-side for a reason.
Not totally correct. The Lead is almost always in charge of the rotation. If the C is on-ball, the best place to go (at first) is to stay where he is. When the Lead comes over then the C can release (if appropriate) and move out to Trail. You'll see this in college and NBA a lot; the C will stay with his good angle until he begins to lose it (at which point the Lead is over), and will move out to Trail to maintain that angle.

Both very true. I was thinking of a different phenomenon however. All too often I see C's bailing out to Trail when the ball swings over to their side, never settles, and immediately goes back across. In this situation a patient Lead would not have initiated a rotation, but the C is moving out anyway. Then, when a strong-side shot happens, the C is nowhere near good position (FTLE) to referee the weak-side rebounding. I dunno, maybe it's just my area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Putting a warning in the book is just idiotic, IMO. I see officials advocating that now and I always ask them how that helps and where there's anything written that supports that kind of "written" warning. If you're going to take the time to put a warning in a book, just whack the coach and get it over with.
Yeah, putting a warning in the book is not something I have done or plan on doing, but a couple college guys have mentioned it is a tool they use when a coach is out of line. I'll retract that one.
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Old Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:31am
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I predict that the wearing of full-length tights will be made legal and incorporated into the leg-sleeve/arm-sleeve rule for restrictions on colors.

Additionally, I'd like to see the NFHS:
a. make the shot clock an acceptable state adoption.

b. The entirety of the team control/player control/backcourt violation rules need to be rewritten. They are still a mess from the TC foul change about three seasons ago.

c. Clarify that fighting during a live ball is a flagrant PERSONAL foul and that fighting during a dead ball is a flagrant TECHNICAL foul.

d. Reporting mechanic: permit two-handed reporting for fouls.
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