2019-20 NFHS: Rumors/Desires?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I forgot that this was a mechanics change year, as well.

Yeah, walk-and-talk would be great, but here a lot of people do it anyway. It’s not something the powers-that-be really care about. But a change would silence the few that do get upset.

This is something that often upsets those locally that have not much else to worry about. I still think we should eventually stop, but I also do not see the big deal if someone is slightly moving. It is kind of like how you signal a directional point and someone cares that you did not give the signal with 4 fingers and a tucked thumb. I had someone at my State Finals games make a comment to me about my "one finger point." No one over us that weekend said a word about it, but I did get an official that knows me (and I respect BTW) send me a text about my signal.

I’m ambivalent on opposite vs. tableside. I don’t imagine that one even being considered.[/QUOTE]

It won't be. I just wish we would stop trying to placate coaches after calls. We are not going to change their minds.

Originally Posted by SC Official

I’d also like to see stopping the clock on OOB go away. Too many people like to have the notion that the timer is actually watching for our hand.

It is done at the Men's college level because many people do not do it properly. I get it and used to think the same way, but that split second I think gets most officials to slow down a bit. And because it is a requirement, you see fewer mistakes IMO at the college level. Of course, not everyone has this problem, but I would not want to see that go away.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It won't be. I just wish we would stop trying to placate coaches after calls. We are not going to change their minds.

I do agree with this.

WAY too many officials spend too much time talking to and trying to placate coaches.

WAY too many coaches want unnecessary explanations.

I believe that's why NCAA-M elected to start going opposite, however many years ago that was.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I do agree with this.

WAY too many officials spend too much time talking to and trying to placate coaches.

WAY too many coaches want unnecessary explanations.

I believe that's why NCAA-M elected to start going opposite, however many years ago that was.

I believe NCAA Men's went to tableside for a year or two and scrapped it. And the reasoning at the time, if I remember, was too much interaction with coaches. I remember some did not like the change back to opposite table, but I have not heard much complaining about it since the change in my world.

Peace

[BillyMac]

NFHS 2018-19 Basketball Rules Changes came out on on May 16, 2018 last year.

A reminder of what the NFHS may be thinking about:

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1030020

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I’d also like to see stopping the clock on OOB go away. Too many people like to have the notion that the timer is actually watching for our hand.

Hopefully those "people" aren't officials. Because officials know the real reason why high school officials do this.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is done at the Men's college level because many people do not do it properly. I get it and used to think the same way, but that split second I think gets most officials to slow down a bit.

That split second gives the high school officials a chance to see what their partner's have on double whistles. Two open hands. One open hand and one closed fist. One open hand and one held ball signal. The split second allows some eye contact and communication before another signal is given, like a direction, or a preliminary foul signal.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Hopefully those "people" aren't officials. Because officials know the real reason why high school officials do this.

That split second gives the high school officials a chance to see what their partner's have on double whistles. Two open hands. One open hand and one closed fist. One open hand and one held ball signal. The split second allows some eye contact and communication before another signal is given, like a direction.

Great point. I don't know why some call it the "stop-the-clock" signal. It is a violation signal. If they get rid of the violation signal for OOB plays (like NCAAW), then they better at least eliminate it for all violations.

Many make some good suggestions. To them add:

*) Eliminate jackets. A totally, unnecessary expense/use.
*) Eliminate captains meetings. A totally, unnecessary time waster.
*) Meet both coaches simultaneously. This would be a nice time saver and prohibit the chance of perceived bias/favoritism. If still have captains, have them attend this meeting too.
*) Eliminate rules that are never enforced.

[SE Minnestoa Re]

Originally Posted by bucky

Great point. I don't know why some call it the "stop-the-clock" signal. It is a violation signal. If they get rid of the violation signal for OOB plays (like NCAAW), then they better at least eliminate it for all violations.

Many make some good suggestions. To them add:

*) Eliminate jackets. A totally, unnecessary expense.
*) Eliminate captains meetings. A totally, unnecessary time waster.
*) Meet both coaches simultaneously. This would be a nice time saver and prohibit the chance of perceived bias/favoritism. If still have captains, have them attend this meeting too.

I'd freeze to death before a game if I didn't have my jacket. Gyms aren't that warm in Minnesota and Wisconsin

[bucky]

Originally Posted by SE Minnestoa Re

I'd freeze to death before a game if I didn't have my jacket. Gyms aren't that warm in Minnesota and Wisconsin

I truly think that I am #1 when it comes to complaining about being cold. I feel freezing in the summer, let alone the winter so I understand however....

So does that mean you die at every half-time? Because jackets are not worn when coming to the court before the second half starts. And I hope that you do not say that you got warm by officiating the first half, when doing warm-ups before a game starts is prescribed by everyone.

Originally Posted by AremRed

I like the jackets. Keeps me warm in some gyms. I don't like standing out too much before games and I think it looks sharp. The cost isn't really all that much.

So you care about not standing out for a bit before the game even though you will stand out for the rest of the game, including half-time?

Originally Posted by SC Official

The NFHS doesn't say anything about jackets in the Rules. I don't think the Manual mentions them either. So that's your state's problem.

It does not say anything about officiating shirts (vertical black/white stripes, grey w/ pin stripes, etc.) either in the Rules but I bet you wear one. Maybe re-read the manual. You might find jackets mentioned there.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is called that because it is one of three ways to actually stop the clock.
Listed that way in the signal section of the rulebook.
Peace

Yes, I am aware. It is just a certain level of redundancy that discourages me. I do like your point about it giving officials a millisecond to reflect before they act.

[ilyazhito]

Perhaps, if all high school gyms had Precision Timing System equipment, then we could think about abolishing the "stop clock for violation signal". However, since that is not the case, the 3 stop clock signals are what stop the game clock, until someone will come up with a 4th approved signal to stop the clock for a timeout that is different from the stop-clock-for-violation signal.

Re: jackets, they are usually the only thing out there that can identify which association an official belongs to (jackets may have local, as well as state, identifiers on them), unless an association pays extra money to buy it's members custom shirts. So, jackets have multiple practical functions.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Perhaps, if all high school gyms had Precision Timing System equipment, then we could think about abolishing the "stop clock for violation signal". However, since that is not the case, the 3 stop clock signals are what stop the game clock, until someone will come up with a 4th approved signal to stop the clock for a timeout that is different from the stop-clock-for-violation signal.

Re: jackets, they are usually the only thing out there that can identify which association an official belongs to (jackets may have local, as well as state, identifiers on them), unless an association pays extra money to buy it's members custom shirts. So, jackets have multiple practical functions.

The WHISTLE *always* stops the clock. No hand signal needed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[bucky]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Re: jackets, they are usually the only thing out there that can identify which association an official belongs to (jackets may have local, as well as state, identifiers on them), unless an association pays extra money to buy it's members custom shirts. So, jackets have multiple practical functions.

I do not doubt you, at least in your area/state, but I am yet to see a jacket with a local association patch/logo on it. I see patches (association/state/US flag) on shirts.

In an odd twist however, I just received a new jacket and am planning on putting a state association patch on it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Perhaps, if all high school gyms had Precision Timing System equipment, then we could think about abolishing the "stop clock for violation signal". However, since that is not the case, the 3 stop clock signals are what stop the game clock, until someone will come up with a 4th approved signal to stop the clock for a timeout that is different from the stop-clock-for-violation signal.

I do not know what the price is now, but this used to be about a $5000 investment for each school. And the schools that once had this, do not use it anymore because they did not pay for it but were using it in the first place, but someone donated the system to eventually have it purchased. Now we have issues getting an extra $5 in pay and now we want to add another expense to schools and we have not even talked about a shot clock, which people like yourself keep advocating for that will also be very expensive. I remember when my state was big on uniform enforcement and schools were crying poor as it cost them several thousands of dollars just to purchase uniforms for one of the teams and that they uniform purchasing were on like a 3 or 4-year cycle.

BTW, the "open hand" signal is not just for violations, it is for all stoppages of clock that do not involve a foul or a held ball. IJS.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Re: jackets, they are usually the only thing out there that can identify which association an official belongs to (jackets may have local, as well as state, identifiers on them), unless an association pays extra money to buy it's members custom shirts. So, jackets have multiple practical functions.

Players have warmups, so should we in some way. And in my state mostly we have a state patch on the jacket. Not everyone puts something on from their association. I used to but I work so many different places it was a pain to try to match where I was working.

Peace

Originally Posted by bucky

So you care about not standing out for a bit before the game even though you will stand out for the rest of the game, including half-time?

Much like players wear warmups before the game, I think refs should as well. I also like the pro style where we wear the jackets going into and coming out of halftime as well. It just looks sharp.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Much like players wear warmups before the game, I think refs should as well. I also like the pro style where we wear the jackets going into and coming out of halftime as well. It just looks sharp.

For players, it is a generally accepted requirement and they need to get warm for reasons that do not govern anyone else. Strangely, many do not wear them at halftime. I agree, that if we wear jackets before the game, then they should be worn coming out of halftime.

Or, just eliminate them.

Originally Posted by bucky

Great point. I don't know why some call it the "stop-the-clock" signal. It is a violation signal. If they get rid of the violation signal for OOB plays (like NCAAW), then they better at least eliminate it for all violations.

Many make some good suggestions. To them add:

*) Eliminate jackets. A totally, unnecessary expense.
*) Eliminate captains meetings. A totally, unnecessary time waster.
*) Meet both coaches simultaneously. This would be a nice time saver and prohibit the chance of perceived bias/favoritism. If still have captains, have them attend this meeting too.

I like the jackets. Keeps me warm in some gyms. I don't like standing out too much before games and I think it looks sharp. The cost isn't really all that much.

Captains meetings I don't really care for, but it's nice to touch base with at least some of the players before the game.

Not sure about your state but the NFHS Officials Manual says we are to meet both coaches at the same time around the 12:00 minute mark. Soo......