2019-20 NFHS: Rumors/Desires?

[bucky]

Originally Posted by SE Minnestoa Re

I'd freeze to death before a game if I didn't have my jacket. Gyms aren't that warm in Minnesota and Wisconsin

I truly think that I am #1 when it comes to complaining about being cold. I feel freezing in the summer, let alone the winter so I understand however....

So does that mean you die at every half-time? Because jackets are not worn when coming to the court before the second half starts. And I hope that you do not say that you got warm by officiating the first half, when doing warm-ups before a game starts is prescribed by everyone.

Originally Posted by AremRed

I like the jackets. Keeps me warm in some gyms. I don't like standing out too much before games and I think it looks sharp. The cost isn't really all that much.

So you care about not standing out for a bit before the game even though you will stand out for the rest of the game, including half-time?

Originally Posted by SC Official

The NFHS doesn't say anything about jackets in the Rules. I don't think the Manual mentions them either. So that's your state's problem.

It does not say anything about officiating shirts (vertical black/white stripes, grey w/ pin stripes, etc.) either in the Rules but I bet you wear one. Maybe re-read the manual. You might find jackets mentioned there.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is called that because it is one of three ways to actually stop the clock.
Listed that way in the signal section of the rulebook.
Peace

Yes, I am aware. It is just a certain level of redundancy that discourages me. I do like your point about it giving officials a millisecond to reflect before they act.

[ilyazhito]

Perhaps, if all high school gyms had Precision Timing System equipment, then we could think about abolishing the "stop clock for violation signal". However, since that is not the case, the 3 stop clock signals are what stop the game clock, until someone will come up with a 4th approved signal to stop the clock for a timeout that is different from the stop-clock-for-violation signal.

Re: jackets, they are usually the only thing out there that can identify which association an official belongs to (jackets may have local, as well as state, identifiers on them), unless an association pays extra money to buy it's members custom shirts. So, jackets have multiple practical functions.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Perhaps, if all high school gyms had Precision Timing System equipment, then we could think about abolishing the "stop clock for violation signal". However, since that is not the case, the 3 stop clock signals are what stop the game clock, until someone will come up with a 4th approved signal to stop the clock for a timeout that is different from the stop-clock-for-violation signal.

Re: jackets, they are usually the only thing out there that can identify which association an official belongs to (jackets may have local, as well as state, identifiers on them), unless an association pays extra money to buy it's members custom shirts. So, jackets have multiple practical functions.

The WHISTLE *always* stops the clock. No hand signal needed.


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[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

The WHISTLE *always* stops the clock. No hand signal needed.


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When it can be heard. The hand is a backup for when it can't.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

When it can be heard. The hand is a backup for when it can't.

So define the mechanic for 0.000001% of the games. Got it.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by bucky

It does not say anything about officiating shirts (vertical black/white stripes, grey w/ pin stripes, etc.) either in the Rules but I bet you wear one. Maybe re-read the manual. You might find jackets mentioned there.

Wrong.

Rule 2-1-1: "The official's uniform shall be a black-and-white striped shirt..."

I'm not the one who wants to get rid of jackets, so why would I look it up?

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Perhaps, if all high school gyms had Precision Timing System equipment, then we could think about abolishing the "stop clock for violation signal". However, since that is not the case, the 3 stop clock signals are what stop the game clock, until someone will come up with a 4th approved signal to stop the clock for a timeout that is different from the stop-clock-for-violation signal.

Re: jackets, they are usually the only thing out there that can identify which association an official belongs to (jackets may have local, as well as state, identifiers on them), unless an association pays extra money to buy it's members custom shirts. So, jackets have multiple practical functions.

If you actually think that the timer is looking for your hand on an OOB call, I don't know what to say. I've worked plenty of games (without PTS) under mechanics sets where you don't stop the clock on OOB and I've never had the timer ask "Can you put your hand up so I know when to stop the clock?"

Also, why would one's association need to be identified? For the fans?

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

When it can be heard. The hand is a backup for when it can't.

Timers aren't looking for our hand. When the ball goes OOB they know the clock is supposed to stop, regardless of whether they hear the whistle or not. If I put my hand up on an OOB and don't blow my whistle, my hand being up is not causing the timer to stop/not stop the clock.

While we're on this subject, chopping is pointless most of the time, too. When I used to run clocks in my pre-officiating days, I was never looking for an official's chop; I was looking for the ball to be touched.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Timers aren't looking for our hand. When the ball goes OOB they know the clock is supposed to stop, regardless of whether they hear the whistle or not. If I put my hand up on an OOB and don't blow my whistle, my hand being up is not causing the timer to stop/not stop the clock.

While we're on this subject, chopping is pointless most of the time, too. When I used to run clocks in my pre-officiating days, I was never looking for an official's chop; I was looking for the ball to be touched.

The mechanic IMO has little or nothing to do with what the timer is watching. The issue is that officials will probably be pointing the wrong way a lot if you take this away. I know we try to make things because we understand how it is done and have been doing it for some time, but remember NF mechanics are for officials all level of officials. That means the first year guy that has a hard time blowing their damn whistle. We cannot come at this only from the perspective of what we have been doing for over 10 years and the NCAA who has very experienced and trained officials doing the very same thing. As a clinician for my state, I can tell you this might not be earth-shattering of a mechanic, but it helps eliminate some basic issue on basic plays.

Peace

[bucky]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Rule 2-1-1: "The official's uniform shall be a black-and-white striped shirt..."

I'm not the one who wants to get rid of jackets, so why would I look it up?

Forgot about that, great catch, and I sit corrected about the shirts being mentioned.

You would look it up because you questioned its existence and tend to not take other's word for it.

Speaking of getting rid of BC 10 second visible count, I would like to see the FT 10 second wrist flick go away. Seems pointless and if the argument is so that people can see you counting, then add the same for 3 seconds violation. Don't care which way, just pick one and be consistent. Either we visibly count everything or do not visibly count anything.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

BTW, the "open hand" signal is not just for violations, it is for all stoppages of clock that do not involve a foul or a held ball. IJS.

Correct but isn't the whistle being blown during those times too? So, no need for hand signal in those cases. Agree?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bucky

Correct but isn't the whistle being blown during those times too? So, no need for hand signal in those cases. Agree?

All a matter of opinion. All sports have signals that officials do that some feel we should not do or are not necessary. It is all a matter of what you value. I just thinking the pointing is not an end all be all solution to something that in many cases cannot be heard. Just for the record, often in replay at the NCAA level, they use the official's signal as the gauge for when the whistle was blown, because you cannot often hear the actual whistle on the audio.

Peace

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

When it can be heard. The hand is a backup for when it can't.

We should run a test where we have all three officials put up their hands simultaneously and see how long it takes the timer to stop the clock!

[bucky]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Re: jackets, they are usually the only thing out there that can identify which association an official belongs to (jackets may have local, as well as state, identifiers on them), unless an association pays extra money to buy it's members custom shirts. So, jackets have multiple practical functions.

I do not doubt you, at least in your area/state, but I am yet to see a jacket with a local association patch/logo on it. I see patches (association/state/US flag) on shirts.

In an odd twist however, I just received a new jacket and am planning on putting a state association patch on it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bucky

I do not doubt you, at least in your area/state, but I am yet to see a jacket with a local association patch/logo on it. I see patches (association/state/US flag) on shirts.

In an odd twist however, I just received a new jacket and am planning on putting a state association patch on it.

It's the norm in VA. Have yet to see a HS jacket that didn't have the association logo on it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

... I am yet to see a jacket with a local association patch/logo on it.

Here in Connecticut each of our six local IAABO boards have their own style of jacket with their own local board logo embroidered on the jacket.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Perhaps, if all high school gyms had Precision Timing System equipment, then we could think about abolishing the "stop clock for violation signal". However, since that is not the case, the 3 stop clock signals are what stop the game clock, until someone will come up with a 4th approved signal to stop the clock for a timeout that is different from the stop-clock-for-violation signal.

I do not know what the price is now, but this used to be about a $5000 investment for each school. And the schools that once had this, do not use it anymore because they did not pay for it but were using it in the first place, but someone donated the system to eventually have it purchased. Now we have issues getting an extra $5 in pay and now we want to add another expense to schools and we have not even talked about a shot clock, which people like yourself keep advocating for that will also be very expensive. I remember when my state was big on uniform enforcement and schools were crying poor as it cost them several thousands of dollars just to purchase uniforms for one of the teams and that they uniform purchasing were on like a 3 or 4-year cycle.

BTW, the "open hand" signal is not just for violations, it is for all stoppages of clock that do not involve a foul or a held ball. IJS.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Re: jackets, they are usually the only thing out there that can identify which association an official belongs to (jackets may have local, as well as state, identifiers on them), unless an association pays extra money to buy it's members custom shirts. So, jackets have multiple practical functions.

Players have warmups, so should we in some way. And in my state mostly we have a state patch on the jacket. Not everyone puts something on from their association. I used to but I work so many different places it was a pain to try to match where I was working.

Peace

Originally Posted by bucky

So you care about not standing out for a bit before the game even though you will stand out for the rest of the game, including half-time?

Much like players wear warmups before the game, I think refs should as well. I also like the pro style where we wear the jackets going into and coming out of halftime as well. It just looks sharp.