Reaching out of your area

[Kansas Ref]

But what about the parents and student-athletes? Regardless of the contest being sub-varsity, recreational league, CYO, or other, shouldn't the official give his/her best effort for the sake of making the contest a properly officiated one?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well, some people care about things while others will never care about. That is not the point of my comments. But if you think everyone cares about those games equally ...

Never said that.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... granted, some don't want to move up ...

Please read my posts, I've already stated that some junior varsity officials don't care about moving up. Some are simply there to get their $63.05 and get home in time for dinner with their family. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

For me personally, every game is relevant for promotion, even if nobody is watching ...

You've confused my discussion with JRutledge with my advice to you to figure out the culture of the various groups that you work with.

If you want to be a good partner you need to "fit in" rather than stick out like a sore thumb. If you force switches in a league where nobody switches you will build a reputation of being "that guy". Moving up the ladder is partly about having good partners, good colleagues, and good friends (yes, politics). It's better that you don't work these leagues than stick out like a square peg in a round hole. I gave up mens recreation early in my career. They wanted to put up with bullshit, I didn't, I didn't fit it, so I made myself unavailable for such games.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You've confused my discussion with JRutledge with my advice to you to figure out the culture of the various groups that you work with.



If you want to be a good partner you need to "fit in" rather than stick out like a sore thumb. If you force switches in a league where nobody switches you will build a reputation of being "that guy". Moving up the ladder is partly about having good partners, good colleagues, and good friends (yes, politics). It's better that you don't work these leagues than stick out like a square peg in a round hole. I gave up mens recreation early in my career. They wanted to put up with bullshit, I didn't, I didn't fit it, so I made myself unavailable for such games.

If I'm doing 3-4 rec games and my partner forces a switch on a non-shooting foul, we're gonna have a chat. Or if he doesn't "toss across." Anytime I'm forced to move just to fit a mechanics manual for no good reason....


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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

But what about the parents and student-athletes? Regardless of the contest being sub-varsity, recreational league, CYO, or other, shouldn't the official give his/her best effort for the sake of making the contest a properly officiated one?

Assuming you have officials working that game who really care, as opposed to just being there to get a paycheck.

Around here officials working those levels are not really concerned about what people think about them. Not to say they're out there just screwing up games, but they are not out there trying to get better nor worrying about the nuances of officiating.

And I actually worked in adult men's rec league where one of the better players (he had a cup of tea in the NBA and played a lot of ball overseas and is now the head coach of a local high school) told me they didn't want guys like me working their games. They wanted rec league officials who were just good enough to keep the peace but didn't necessarily know all the rules or see all the sneaky stuff they did.

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[Randa16]

In my area you have

Rec Ball - Kids pay $20 for a season, they pay $15 a game
GABL - Kids pay $100 plus for a season, they pay $30 a game
Tournament complex - not sure what it cost but running clock $20 a game

I did rec ball for one season because it was in my community and wanted to help out. Huge mistake by me. The sports director was clueless and knew nothing about basketball. The parents are just horrible, the talent level is horrible and I usually worked with a partner that had no clue. I quit after 3 weeks.

GABL and tournaments are ok. 20% are really good refs, 20% are train wrecks that amaze me they can blow a whistle and 60% are decent refs that I can tolerate for the most part even when they get confused on the possession arrow.

When I started 10 years ago it was more like 50%, 10% and 40% but we have seen a huge loss of officials over the years. The good refs who loved what they did and took pride are retiring and now we get paycheck refs. When you tell me you do high school and then have to be removed during your 6th grade game because you just gave the HC and 3 fans a T, then yelled at the stands to STFU I am scared for the future.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

But what about the parents and student-athletes? Regardless of the contest being sub-varsity, recreational league, CYO, or other, shouldn't the official give his/her best effort for the sake of making the contest a properly officiated one?

Are they working multiple games in a row? Are they working a portion of the fee they would normally get? All those things matter. If I am asked to work 4 games in a row at less than a 1/3 of what I would get paid for one game, then what effort do you want? Sorry, not happening. So if you expect anyone to switch on every foul or do all the little mechanic things that the book says, you are not paying me enough to guarantee me or others to do that. I will personally only do everything like that during a high school game. The other levels, be lucky if I even take a game. And that is why I don't. Not paid enough for the headache it brings.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

But what about the parents and student-athletes? Regardless of the contest being sub-varsity, recreational league, CYO, or other, shouldn't the official give his/her best effort for the sake of making the contest a properly officiated one?

While this might be the politically correct thing to say, let's be real.

If I am working a bunch of games in a row, you can bet I will be conserving energy and steps so I have something left for the last game.

People need to understand that the officials who take a bunch of wreck games are often not "certified" officials; if they are they're often the bottom of the barrel. Sometimes "good" officials who take those games have unrealistic expectations of who they will be working with. Wreck games are not high school games; you're likely going to come already dressed, have a minimal (if any) pregame, and be working with partners who are just bad. That is what you sign up for with these games. And the insistence on doing everything "by the book" in these settings is just over-the-top.

I quit wasting my time on these games when they weren't helping me get any better and when the BS I had to put up with outweighed the money.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SC Official

...

I quit wasting my time on these games when they weren't helping me get any better and when the BS I had to put up with outweighed the money.

I quit doing these games b/c of the bad habits I would fall into due to a lack of a 3rd official and for trying to compensate for weaker officials.

[ilyazhito]

I'd love to stop doing rec games, but unfortunately some of the HS associations that I work for expect (or require) their members to do some amount of rec ball. If and when I do get a full varsity schedule, I'll request to limit my rec games to either fellow varsity officials, or newer officials, so I could help them improve. Otherwise, I'll just work for groups that don't require me to do rec ball.

[SC Official]

"Required" to do wreck ball? Christ. I guess that's what happens when high school assigning groups take on those games, as well.

"Independent contractor" my ass. We have issues here, but I have never been "required" to do wreck ball as a condition of advancement.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

"Required" to do wreck ball? Christ. I guess that's what happens when high school assigning groups take on those games, as well.

"Independent contractor" my ass. We have issues here, but I have never been "required" to do wreck ball as a condition of advancement.

This is how you lose officials as well. You require them to do things they might not have even signed up for. I am a high school official. I am only wanting to do high school games with my license. I do not care about AAU, wreak ball or some JH game that I do not need a license to do.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

Yes, Board 134 requires that its members do at least 1 weekend day of rec ball a month (it says that they do this to give back to the membership). Board 12 and MBOA have many rec contracts as well, and they constantly ask officials to help take those games. Some of my partners on those games are good varsity veterans or up-and-comers, but others...

At least 2 of my groups don't require rec games, so that's a plus. I'm OK with working an occasional rec game with good veterans, or to help up-and-comers develop good habits, but I am NOT OK with partners, even veteran varsity officials, not communicating and using bad mechanics. This includes reaching into my primary area on plays that are not emergencies. Be right, be late, be needed.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Yes, Board 134 requires that its members do at least 1 weekend day of rec ball a month (it says that they do this to give back to the membership). Board 12 and MBOA have many rec contracts as well, and they constantly ask officials to help take those games. Some of my partners on those games are good varsity veterans or up-and-comers, but others...

At least 2 of my groups don't require rec games, so that's a plus. I'm OK with working an occasional rec game with good veterans, or to help up-and-comers develop good habits, but I am NOT OK with partners, even veteran varsity officials, not communicating and using bad mechanics. This includes reaching into my primary area on plays that are not emergencies. Be right, be late, be needed.

Wow!!!!!!!! Some of you guys have to put up with some unbelievable crap from a power hunger assignor or association. I'm so glad we are truly treated as independent contractors here and don't have to anything other than high school........what we are licensed for. What an absolute joke to make officials do wreck ball.

[BillyMac]

About thirty-five years ago my high school board assigned some recreation games, not many, but some. I believe that we were allowed to opt out of these games. Now we're 100% interscholastic games.

I opted to do them for a few years and learned a lot about game management that has helped me to this day. There's something to be said about learning under fire, not a lot, but something.