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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 02:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotationslim View Post
That is very true, sometimes there are legitimate fouls at the end of the game that just come from aggressive, good play. But there are also a lot of times when a ball is inbounded and the defenseman runs over and grabs the ball handler in a clear attempt to foul, and it is never called as intentional.
Again, it is not illegal to "intentionally" foul someone. The foul is not based on whether you meant to do it, it is based on the kind of action that you fouled them. Like you never made any attempt at the ball. If I reach for the ball hand foul you, your intent is not the issue. Yes, that is why the NF said it was an acceptable strategy to foul a player at the end of the game on purpose.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 02:11pm
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Originally Posted by rotationslim View Post
not being a smart-ass, interested in knowing why you think that? What about that would make it worse?
According to you, any foul at the end of the game would be ruled as intentional. We would have legitimate plays rules that way and would end the game really early. There would be no drama at the end to make the FTs when they clearly are fouled or a team takes a risk to steal the ball.

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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 03:00pm
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I don't necessarily disagree with the OP...the end of basketball games, from the NBA to HS, is typically tedious and boring when you get into FT shooting contests. I don't agree that any foul in the last two minutes should equal 2FT and possession though, as that doesn't solve the issue, and penalizes legitimate defensive play.

I wonder what would happen if you gave the fouled team the option to shoot FT or take the ball out of bounds...just thinking off the top of my head. I know this has been discussed for hack-a-shaq situations, which is also an issue. I've never understood why you force a team to take a reward and don't give them a choice since they are the offended party.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 03:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintguru View Post
I don't necessarily disagree with the OP...the end of basketball games, from the NBA to HS, is typically tedious and boring when you get into FT shooting contests. I don't agree that any foul in the last two minutes should equal 2FT and possession though, as that doesn't solve the issue, and penalizes legitimate defensive play.

I wonder what would happen if you gave the fouled team the option to shoot FT or take the ball out of bounds...just thinking off the top of my head. I know this has been discussed for hack-a-shaq situations, which is also an issue. I've never understood why you force a team to take a reward and don't give them a choice since they are the offended party.
So the losing team would just continue fouling and the winning team will continue taking the ball out. That won't speed up the game.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 03:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintguru View Post
I don't necessarily disagree with the OP...the end of basketball games, from the NBA to HS, is typically tedious and boring when you get into FT shooting contests. I don't agree that any foul in the last two minutes should equal 2FT and possession though, as that doesn't solve the issue, and penalizes legitimate defensive play.

I wonder what would happen if you gave the fouled team the option to shoot FT or take the ball out of bounds...just thinking off the top of my head. I know this has been discussed for hack-a-shaq situations, which is also an issue. I've never understood why you force a team to take a reward and don't give them a choice since they are the offended party.
I’d be up with the option—high school rules 70-80 years ago gave that option.

I’d add a caveat—the offended team could either inbound at the spot of the foul or at 3/4 court—with no defense allowed in the backcourt (penalty: technical foul) until the ball gains front court status. “Free-ins” so to speak.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 03:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintguru View Post
I wonder what would happen if you gave the fouled team the option to shoot FT or take the ball out of bounds...just thinking off the top of my head.
I believe that was the FIBA rule many years ago.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 03:43pm
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Had a close game this weekend where kid told me out of a timeout they were going to foul. I said make sure you make a play on the ball....Kid proceeded to grab a player from behind by the arms...he didn't have the ball.

Coach was dumbfounded why I called intentional foul.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 04:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotationslim View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MechanicGuy
Your solutions would lead to a much worse product.not being a smart-ass, interested in knowing why you think that? What about that would make it worse?
I have to admit, I had the same question.

Other proposals, which I think aren't terrible, include automatic bonus and possession after the 12th foul or something similar.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 04:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RefsNCoaches View Post
Had a close game this weekend where kid told me out of a timeout they were going to foul. I said make sure you make a play on the ball....Kid proceeded to grab a player from behind by the arms...he didn't have the ball.

Coach was dumbfounded why I called intentional foul.
Probably because in prior games other officials let that go as a common foul. You ruined his end of game plan.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 07:58pm
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Maybe go to 3 FTs to make 2 like it was in NBA back in the day.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 07, 2018, 07:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
So the losing team would just continue fouling and the winning team will continue taking the ball out. That won't speed up the game.
Throw in takes much less time than free throws and gives the fouled team a chance to play keep away. Plus, with little chance of creating a turnover beyond an actual steal of the ball, the incentive to simply foul and not actually try for a steal is diminished.

As others have mentioned, this is not a new concept (damn, there goes my patent).
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 07, 2018, 08:20am
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
the NF said it was an acceptable strategy to foul a player at the end of the game on purpose.

Peace
That is the point of my post. Basketball should end condoning fouling on purpose. The very act of committing a foul is acting outside the rules, that is why we blow the whistle and punish them. We should re-think the mindset that condones that.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 07, 2018, 08:26am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
There would be no drama at the end to make the FTs when they clearly are fouled or a team takes a risk to steal the ball.

Peace
No need for drama-- lets let good basketball play decide the contest. In my mind good basketball play includes speed and power and flow and playmaking with the ball. None of those count for anything in the final moments of a foul cause you are behind end of game scenario. It comes down to a coach calling play after play in timeouts like a football coach.. and guys grabbing the ball handler like he is a cop making an arrest.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 07, 2018, 08:30am
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Art Hyland and JD Collins do not peruse this forum, so constantly asking for rules changes here is a fruitless endeavor.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 07, 2018, 08:38am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Art Hyland and JD Collins do not peruse this forum, so constantly asking for rules changes here is a fruitless endeavor.
Not under any delusion that this thread will be taken seriously be any bball power brokers-- just like hearing from like minds on topics-- its very interesting and expands my points of view on rules and the game in general
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